Future NAA .380 vs. other Pocket Pistols?

M

MatthewVanitas

New member
Greetings all,
Apparently, there's going to be yet another neat little pocket pistol coming out. Check out http://www.naaminis.com/holidaylook.html

The NAA folks who made the .32 Guardian are apparently upscaling to a .380 version. My question is this: is the extra power of .380 going to be worth the increased weight and increased size of this new model, or is this going to fall smack dab between the smaller and weaker P32 and the larger and more powerful, but still pocketable (?) Kahr MK9 and KT P11, and thus fall by the wayside?

Measurements as follows (height, lenghth, width)

NAA .380: 3.6 x 4.8 x ? ?oz 7rds .380ACP
NAA .32: 3.3 x 4.4 x .85 13.5oz 7rds .32ACP
KT P32: 3.5 x 5.1 x .75 6oz 7rds .32ACP

KT P11: 4.6 x 5.3 x 1.0 14oz 11rds 9mmPB
Kahr MK9: 4.0 x 5.3 x .9 22 oz 7rds 9mmPB
Kahr MK40: 4.0 x 5.3 x .95 23 oz 6rds .40Lib

Looking at the numbers actually, one wonders what the MK9 has over the MK40. They seem almost identical, do folks just choose the 9mm for lighter recoil and the extra round?
I've been wanting to find a pocket auto as an "always" gun, and the choices are about bugging the heck out of me. I'm especially concerned because I've had bad experience with the few little pocket gats I've tried. I found the recoil of the Colt 380 Mustang and the 9x18 Mak to be excessive. I don't mind .45 Colt Defenders, which is a big round in a small chunk of steel, but a tiny, sharp recoiling round in a featherweight gun can be awfully unpleasant.
Anywha, I just thought it would be interesting to lay all the numbers out, for my benefit and for whoever else was curious. The one thing I do like about the NAA mini, (which will hopefully hold true for the larger new model) is how many options there are. Admittedly, you can end up with a $1000 upper end pimpgun in a mouse caliber, but to each his own. Personally, I'd go for the black high polish finish, stipling of frame, scalloping on slide, porting (which even the custom shop admits is about decorative only), "guttersnipe" sites (very cool), and top it off with some smooth carved kingwood grips and maybe some tasteful silver engraving in Latin. (large grin) It's all there in the Custom sections of http://www.naaminis.com (for contrast, http://www.kel-tec.com or http://www.ktog.org, and http://www.kahr.com)
Usual disclaimer of no financial incentive on my part applies.

So, which pocket gun holds the hearts of the TFL crew? I have yet to decide myself,
-LCpl Matthew Boris
 
NAA .380

I'll buy one when they appear, and might even spring for Ashley Express sights from the NAA custom shop. I'm currently packing a Kel-Tec .32, but a .380 will offer roughly twice the power. It's bound to be better for pocket carry than the Kahr MK9, which feels like a brick.

On the subject of pocket pistols, I had one of the famous Seecamps in .32 ACP and got rid of it. Basketball-sized groups at seven yards just didn't get it for me. They claim that Seecamps don't have sights because you don't need them, but I think they really know that sights on a Seecamp would confirm how inaccurate the gun really is!

I'm still holding out hope for a Kel-Tec .380 that's close to or slightly larger than the P32, with better sights on it. That would be my idea of a great pocket pistol.
Good Shooting, CoyDog
 
a small pocket gun like these are not going to give you nice groups.they are a self defence close range(belly gun) ,last ditch gun.they are cute,kinda cool but they really shouldnt be judged by group acuracy.i think people today put tp much empisis on groups.gun writters contribute to this.even a hunting rifle shouldnt be judged in this way.lets face it if you can hit a 12 inch plate at 100 yards,EVERYTIME,you have a gun thats gonna bring home the bacon.never herd of someone checking out how good there group was on that dear they just bagged.
now a target gun thats a different story.
 
i saw some overlay comparisons of the guardian .32 and
guardian .380, i would guess the guardian .380 would
be about a beretta tomcat or beretta 21 size which would be too big for me for comfortable back pocket carry.
the larger size may make it more durable. i read a
couple of articles about the seecamp .380. it is virtually
the same size as the seecamp .32. larry seecamp stated
that the .380 had an expected life of 1,000 rounds.
 
Greetings
Anyone that has read my posts lately will know my response to this post. First why would you want a pocket gun in a caliber that you would not carry as a primary? Second any pocket gun should be of the highest quality of manufacture, durable and absolutely reliable.
Now i have no argument with those of you that carry a .25 or .32 or .380 as a backup. In a situation where you have lost control of your primary weapon or that weapon has failed (yes, guys that can and does happen) any firearm is better than a pocketknife and a prayer. However if i had a choice i would carry one pocketgun/backup. It would be one, as i have said of superior manufacture, durable so i could practice with it regularly and absolutely reliable. Two, it would be in a caliber that i would trust as a primary because trust me, there will be times that you will carry it that way if it is comfortable enough. Also there is the blessing of sharing ammo and even mags if your primary and pocket/backup gun is well thought out.
The best examples are the current crop of Glocks and Kahrs that have a belt size weapon and a ultracompact weapon of the same caliber that share the same mags in a pinch. As far as concealing the ultracompact in a pocket or on your ankle, take a long look at the Kahr line. They are the flatest, most durable, smallest major caliber weapons on the market.
I carry a K40 in a Kramer belt scabbard strongside. On the weak side i carry an MK40 in a Kramer belt scabbard. The great thing about the MK40 is that in a Kramer pocket holster it fits well in a front or back pants pocket. It is a true major defensive caliber and it can share mags with the K40.
My tilt on this is why would i carry a compremise pocket "mouse" gun when you can have a true "pocket rocket"
 
NAA 380

Scoops: I agree with you that groups are not all that important in actual use, but they do provide a useful index of a weapon's capability. The Seecamp I formerly owned would shoot 12" groups at seven yards. My Kel-Tec P32 will shoot 2.5" groups at the same distance. Since both guns were equally reliable, it's an easy choice for me to pick the most accurate one.
Good Shooting,
CoyDog
 
The NAA 380 will never be legal in Kalifornia as it has no external safety. Most pocket pistols will not pass the test. In other words, if you want a pocket pistol and live in Kal, buy one now before Dec 31!
 
Matthew

If you still have the Mustang Pocketlite try firing some Federal Hydra-Shok "Personal Defense" (PD)
ammunition in .380. This is what I use all the time. It's supposed to have a "softer" recoil and be nearly full power. I consider my Mustang Pocketlite with the Federal PD's to be a soft shooter.
I purchased the "PD's" because I figured that reduced recoil ammo would be easier on the pistol, and I want it to last a long time. The Mustang Pocketlite weighs only 12.5 ounces and you can't just walk into a gun shop and buy one any more. They're getting difficult to find NIB.

Kentucky Rifle
 
I'm somewhat astonished that the recoil of the Colt Mustang and the Mak seemed excessive, one has to wonder what was being shot in those guns! I find the recoil of the Colt Mustang Pocketlite to be very mild, no doubt due to the locked breech design. The Mak is heavy enough to soak up recoil, it's yet another gun that I find the recoil to be quite tame. I'm sure that any pocket sized 9mm or larger caliber will have more recoil than either of these guns.
 
Recoil in small caliber compacts

I wanted to like the Colt Mustang .380, but seriously, I did find the recoil unpleasant, with Federal FMJ 380, just the standard red box stuff. I actually still have half the box left from two years ago, didn't even finish the box when I rented the pistol. When a friend rented a Mak, I thought that little critter kicked unpleasantly too. I've fired 45ACP Officer model, Defender, and mini-Glocks, 40Lib mini-Glocks, etc, but found the recoil on those less objectionable than Mak, Mustang, or the 32H&R Ti snub.

-MKB
 
I have two Mustangs, one Pocketlite that I carry, and another SS one that I picked up recently so I wouldn't beat my Pocketlite up practicing. I've shot lots of standard FMJ, as well as a good quantity of Remington GS out of my Pocketlite, and it's not objectionable at all to me. I shot the Sign P230, a larger and heavier gun, and it has lots more felt recoil than my Pocketlite.

I guess that's why there's all flavors, something for everyone. :)
 
Matthew!!

Now I KNOW you're joking!
A 32 H&R mag, even in a titanium pistol feels like a .22 or at most a .22 magnum. I own a .40 caliber Glock 27 and the Mustang Pocketlite's recoil is NOTHING like the Glock. You had me going there for a while! :)

Kentucky Rifle
 
No joke

Honestly, let me put it this way: a S&W 640 357 snub may be considered to have rather unpleasantly snappy recoil. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that when I fired a revolver of half the weight, it felt rather unpleasant as well. I'm not saying it snapped my wrist or that my hand was going over my head or anything, but the darn little thing kept whipping back in an unpleasantly sharp manner. A .22 just wobbles as it recoils, this thing smacked my palm.
I'm not so much talking _big_ recoil as I'm talking _snappy_ recoil. Even in a full size revolver, it seems to me that .357Mag is "snappier" than .45Colt in a similar size revolver, even though, utterly technically, there might be more force exerting backwards on the .45Colt.


So, no joke was intended, I just find snappy, light little guns kind of trying, and often harder to shoot than a larger caliber in a heavier piece.


Lest anyone think I was carrying a recoil joke too far,

-MKB

(On a side note: I've been rather intrigued by the MK40 as of late, and am anxious to find a range that has one. A mini-glock in .40 or .45 isn't bad for recoil, so if a MK40 is around the same in that respect, I'll consider the stopping power worth the trouble.)
 
Riddle Of Steele....

As always, I have respect for your opinions... you know your stuff, and we often think similarly.

I have to say in this case, that not everyone's day to day lifestyle allows carry of a firearm, even a Kahr MK40. I owned one, and my wife still has her MK9, but even those are too big at my work. Dress is "dress casual", and the weight of the MK's makes the old Khakis droop. You will never catch me elsewhere without my P9, but at work, where it states CLEARLY in our employee handbook that carrying firearms results in termination, you just have to settle for what you can have. For me, it will be the Guardian .32. Our offices are downtown, and there have been shootings RIGHT across the street. (.25 and .38 so far) I frequently leave after dark....

Yes, if I could, I'd have at LEAST an MK40 at work, but in the "open" environment we have here, a .32 is the MOST I can have on me.
 
Onslaught,
Have you tried a S&W 342/642 .38 in your pocket with a Kramer pocket holster. Even if it does print, it looks like you have a flat wallet in your pocket.

Just a suggestion.
 
I've got a Taurus 85UL, is that similar in size?

I sit a lot, in meetings, in front of people, and being that we have an "open" atmosphere around here, it's quite often not at a table. So I can't have anything in the front pocket that'll print, and anything in the back pocket has to be small.

For the most part, the NAA Guardian would only need to be enough to get me to my vehicle :) I plan to carry a spare clip too. Gee, 13 rounds of .32 still sounds pretty lacking, don't it!
 
I agree

that a true "mouse gun" in a .25, .32, or .380 has its place. it is certainly better than nothing if you absolutely can not have a REAL gun.

LOL

i would advise the potential "mouse gun" buyer/carrier to honestly evaluate his/her situation and determine if your situation that does not allow you to carry is REALLY...
1. worth staying in
2. really that restrictive (is there an inovative way to conceal a major caliber weapon?)
3. at risk enough to require a gun.

i have worked in healthcare situations for many years all of them expressly forbid the carrying of ANY weapon even a pocket knife. currently i work in a situation were i have to run a front desk with money box part of the time. we are a public surgical center and anyone could walk in. anyone that has been there and recieved change knows we have a certain amount of cash.
here is my point...if i find myself in a bad situation, i.e. an armed and dangerous person across the counter from me. i will have to decide if i want to lose my job by resisting with my gun or cooperate and let it slide. let me make that clear i will NOT use a weapon to prevent a robbery of my place of business or prevent simple physical violence. the only time i would draw my weapon is if my life or the life of another is on the line. i like my job and i don't feel like risking it for carrying a weapon or playing John Wayne.
however i do carry my MK40 in a pocket holster in my back pocket and a Stiff Kiss tanto neck knife at work. i do have the advantage of being able to wear a pair of surgical scrub pants over my jeans that helps cover it up. as far as the weight i "dress for success"( belt, suspenders, proper pocket construction)..when i find a true quality major caliber pocket gun that meets my criteria and is light. i.e. an MP9/MP40 Kahr (dreaming here) i will consider it. until then i will find a way to carry my MK40 Kahr weight and all.
my hope is, if and when the ballon goes up. my weapon and i will be up to the job to save me or the lives of my loved ones and fellow workers. your milage may vary.
 
See, I TOLD ya we think alike!!!

When/If Kahr ever makes a MP9, I'm in line at the local gunshop singing "Wanna buy a slightly used Guardian?" :)

In fact, IF Kahr ever makes a P40 (heard TFL rumors) I'll be torn between selling my P9, or just being happy with 7+1 of 9mm over 6+1 of .40.
 
There should be no question as to the quality of these little NAA guns. They are made of one of the best quality grades of steel, with propper heat treating and milled 100% on CNC mills. After the parts are milled the parts are then hand fitted and polished. Everyone in the shop is a shooter with there own gun collections and opinions on what a good gun is. NAA is one of the neatest little shops you'll ever find. The people are dedicated.

A few years ago I went there for a visit and talked to folks and watched how a gaurdian and Mini is made... Efficient process. But the hand fitting was a surprise. They dont crank out by piecework... they dont have a time limit on each gun... they work fast and effective - but they do take the time to make sure everything fits propperly... With fully CNC'd parts the job is just easier.
After fitting, the guns are all test fired only about 15 feet from where it was assembled. That means if there is a problem - its tossed back and taken down to see what the problem was.
I remember the shops foreman - Guy had an eagle eye for detail... Whole shop ran like a well oiled machine - just like the pistols.
 
Onslaught

I've had my Guardian for quite a while. It's a great little pistol.
I keep it in a "back pocket" holster made by RJ Hedley, and it is a really comfortable way to carry a Guardian all day. (Feels lighter for some reason.) I also got one of his pocket magazine pouches for $15.00. No belt loops or anything, just slips into my pocket holding fast to the extra mag keeping it lint free. It's a quality item.
After viewing some X-rays, I have changed the carry load for my Guardian from Fiocchi FMJ to Glaser Blue Tips. People will tell you that a pre-fragmented bullet, like the Glaser, is less effective for a variety of reasons (heavy winter clothing is the usual reason given), however if you had seen the X-rays you would be changing to Glasers also.
Oh, and the Hedley back pocket holster is quite reasonably priced. I'm ordering another one for my Seecamp.

Kentucky Rifle
 
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