Fully Auto 1911

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predecessor

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Hypothetically of course, what would make a 1911 run or seem to run fully auto (similar to the trigger speed assisted by a slide fire stock)?

I'm not looking to alter a 1911 to become such, but am curious what general methods exist. Following is a list of potential methods/questions I have:

1) Could a part(s) be interchanged or smithed?

2) Could a standard part break or mis-function causing the rapid fire?

3) Could an aftermarket accessory be employed?

4) Could a different kind or style of magazine cause the phenomenon?
 
I was line referee at a Conventional Pistol match and a M1911 went full auto. The last 2 or 3 rounds went threw the roof over the line. I think it scared me more than the shooter. I don't think you want to be around anything like this.

Also, I don't think this thread will last long. May be in violation of TFL rules. :confused:
 
This is exactly what I'm trying to get info on. I had a 1911 that I have shot for 2 years do this to me today - 3 shots consecutively! Just trying to figure out what the heck happened and thought I'd try and get some well rounded responses from folk. I'm not asking for design plans and a 3D printer :rolleyes:
 
I have witnessed full-auto 1911s on a number of occasions, always due to a faulty part, or a good party improperly "fitted".
I have never heard of an aftermarket part that could be substituted to create intentional full-auto function.
As for "seem to", that's something apart from the gun's mechanical condition.
Be careful, as ATF has gone after people with malfunctioning semi-auto guns; they don't care why.
I know someone who has been hounded by the legal system for twenty years because of a malfunctioning AR that he immediately put away after it malfunctioned.
In his mind, it needed to be repaired before firing again, in the eyes of the feds he was concealing a machine gun.
 
Years ago my friend had a AMT Hardballer it went full auto, turns out the little parts that holds the firing pin/spring in place had slipped or moved and held the firing pin forward, we were shooting in the desert at the time so big scare but no holes in anything except the sky.
In Bobs case that may have been a error in reassembly
 
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I'd start by looking at the trigger pull weight, and the physical weight of the trigger.

It's a known fact that 1911s with very light triggers are prone to repeat. That's why the Colt Gold Cups have an additional spring inside, to ensure that the sear resets properly. It's also why gunsmiths working on competition pistols with light, crisp triggers keep the actual trigger as light as possible.
 
Disconnecter, sear?? Is it possible you just ran it super fast/bump fired so to speak. I have on occasion banged of 2 or 3 rounds from a GLOCK not at full auto speed but seemingly so by trying to work the trigger right at the reset and both the recoil and my pull basically banged of 2 or 3 verry fast shots.
 
1930 tests for sub-machine guns, (gun with fore end added in an attempt at control) cycled 700 r.p.m.
To make one seem to run full auto all you need is many, many, many rounds and practice. some people have been timed at emptying a standard mag. in one second. You can probably find some on U tube if you look hared enough.
 

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I have fired an M1911 (not A1) converted legally to selective fire. Even with a shoulder stock, the gun was pretty much worthless. It was uncontrollable and, as mentioned above, only the first and sometimes second shots went anywhere near the target.

The original post sounds like Predecessor wants to know how to get make a full auto pistol in some "legal" way; even if that were possible, it would not be worth it in any kind of reasonable terms unless the only goals are making noise and wasting ammunition.

Almost all cases I have known of pistols doubling or going full auto have been the result of amateur attempts to "do a trigger job."

Jim
 
I'd give him the benefit of a doubt and say he's just curious, as am I, to know if it's ever been done (which it appears it has) and how the designers effected that. Always fun to learn about obscure and unusual (if impractical) designs.
 
The original post did kind of seem like it was fishing but post #3 explains he's trying to diagnose a problem he has already had with his 1911.

Leave it or lock it?

Tough call, that's why the staff get the big bucks around here. :rolleyes:

P.S. No joke, I really do appreciate the work the moderators do here.
 
I had a trigger job done on my new Colt Series '70 back in 1976. Took it out in the Arizona desert and it burped out 7 rounds in about one second. Back then I shot pistols one-handed and there was no controlling muzzle rise. The last two spent shells bounced off my temple as the 45 was firing right next to my left ear! I wanted to beat the crap out of the gunsmith but it was a week before I got back to Phoenix so I cooled down a little. The sear and hammer had been butchered. Once they were replaced and a proper trigger job was done I had no more trouble.
 
This is exactly what I'm trying to get info on. I had a 1911 that I have shot for 2 years do this to me today - 3 shots consecutively! Just trying to figure out what the heck happened and thought I'd try and get some well rounded responses from folk. I'm not asking for design plans and a 3D printer
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When it happened to me, it was due to two separate, but related issues.
My gun has a grip safety that is redesigned to be removable without having to first remove the mainspring housing. In the redesign, the built-in trigger overtravel stop was deleted.
My gun, like a lot of modern 1911s, has a trigger adjustable for overtravel. The adjustment is effected by turning a headless screw in or out. If the screw is not secured in the trigger via Loctite or staking, the screw can move.
If the screw starts migrating out, allowing additional overtravel, there's nothing to prevent the trigger from overtraveling so far that it pushes the sear spring away from the disconnector, and the latter is free to move up and down as the slide cycles, firing until the trigger is released.
It's a "perfect storm", that wouldn't otherwise be possible unless some or all of the parts were dimensionally out of spec.
 
"...1930 tests for sub-machine guns..." Long before 1930, as I recall. Around 1920 or a bit earlier.
However, wear out the sear and use light ammo will make it Rock and Roll. Break the sear and it'll probably double and jam. A really light trigger will do it too. Uncontrollable anyway.
Doing in on purpose would be terribly illegal of course.
 
You probably right about tests being done in the 20's but what little info I have on full auto 1911's indicated that colt was still playing with the idea in the 30's. It has even been claimed that John Dillenger has one in 38 super(?) but I have never run across anything that might prove that one.
 
It has even been claimed that John Dillenger has one in 38 super(?) but I have never run across anything that might prove that one.
Click to expand...
FBI HQ collection.

 
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IIRC, the Dillinger gun was impressive looking, but was not full auto. There were several versions of the 1911 turned out by Colt in combinations of barrel length and stock, both semi and select fire. The trench warfare of WWI created an interest in such a gun, but none was ever adopted or got past the experimental stage.

As with any other locked breech gun, hammer fall has to be delayed until the breech is locked; depending on hammer follow down won't work. The selective fire version I fired was not factory. It was made like the Star pistol, with a selector on the right side; the sear was tripped by the final movement of the slide as it went into battery.

Jim
 
what would make a 1911 run or seem to run fully auto (similar to the trigger speed assisted by a slide fire stock)?
Click to expand...

The short answer is, A MALFUNCTION.

Worn parts, broken parts, parts deliberately altered for a better "this or that" (trigger pull, usually)... EXTRA parts, aftermarket parts and their fitting, even dirt & crud, in the right amount in the right place. THESE are the factors that make a 1911 "run away".

While there was a select fire variant of the 1911 style (Star?) made in Spain at one time, it was neither popular nor effective. Standard handguns at 2.5-3lbs are simply to light for controllable full auto fire.

The world's fastest shooters can make a 1911 SOUND like a machinegun, but only when there is no machinegun present to compare it with. Note that the world speed records are held by gifted individuals shooting DA revolvers!

There is no "slidefire" or "bumpfire" device for the 1911 that I know of, and they would be a more than slightly stupid idea, to use, if someone did make one. Un & undertrained people cannot keep a Tommygun on target, and it weighs four times (or more) what a 1911 pistol does (and it has a lot more to hang on to!). What do you think the likely results of a full auto (or nearly full auto slilde fire speed) would be in the 1911 pistol?

As others have said, from seeing real world examples, most of the rounds go airborne! (over the target, over the berm, through the roof, etc)

The people that really scare me are the ones who tinker with the insides of the pistol to get a "good" trigger pull that they think they need. When you get the trigger pull down around the 3lb range (or less) you run serious risks of have the pistol "jar off" and go full auto. 3.5lbs seems to be possible and lasting, much less than that I think is a risk.

And, before someone writes in telling how they have a perfect 2.5, 2, 1.5lb, etc., trigger pull and have fired a quarter million rounds with zero malfunctions, I say Bully for you! Set up shop, and your fortune is made! Best be heavy on the liability insurance, though! :D:rolleyes:
 
Some years ago a guy set up in this area as a gunsmith, letting it be known that he did super 1911 trigger jobs. His pulls were so light that his knife edge sears kept being battered by the half cock notch. His solution was to grind off the half cock notch. After a couple of his guns ran away (fortunately with no damage), he was visited by the state cops and a couple of lawyers and persuaded to consider another line of work. Last I heard he was doing lawn mower repair.

Jim
 
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