Full Auto Componants:LEGAL if surplus condition?

S

Silent Predator

Inactive
:confused:
I am confused about something and I hope somebody out there can clear this up for me. I have viewed several sites that offer for sale and is always
advertised for sale using the following heading:
"FULL AUTO PARTS KITS, EVERYTHING BUT THE RECEIVER IS INCLUDED!
FULL AUTO REPLACEMENT PARTS ARE TO BE USED ONLY FOR REPAIRING
YOUR REGISTERED MACHINEGUNS. THESE ARE SURPLUS PARTS AND IT IS
NOT LEGAL TO USE THEM TO MANYFACTURE OR CONVERT A SEMI-AUTO WEAPON INTO A MACHINEGUN". And sometimes the wording goes on and on
but means the same as posted above. :rolleyes:

:eek: But then I see at Numrich's website, they off the EXACT same Full Auto parts and F/A Parts kits and says these parts are all BRAND NEW and they AREN'T just old surplus parts. But they say that the NEW Machinegun parts can ONLY be sold and shipped to the buyer ONLY AFTER the buyer has sent them copies of their SOT paperwork or an ATF Form 4. :confused:

What I want to know is how is it legal for anyone to buy "OLD SURPLUS" Full auto parts that are still fully functional and NO paperwork of any kind is required by any laws, but the EXACT SAME PARTS cannot
be purchased if they are BRAND NEW unless the have all the proper paperwork??? Am I missing some "legality" part of this Legal Loophole? Can somebody please clear this up for me? PLEASE!
 
I suspect that the ones on Numrich were made between 1968 and May 19, 1986. The others are unregistered surplus parts.

Not knowing NFA laws very well, I refer you to a place to get all your answers: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.htm Of course you probably need a law degree to understand them. Lord knows I don't.

Here are a couple other good links that may be easier to understand. All of them were found just by doing a search in the Full Auto forum here at TFL. :)

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79201
http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/law.html
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110809
 
I'm Still searching for my answers

The links you provided did help to explain some of my other NFA questions, however there wasn't much there to answer my particular inquiry.
Let me try asking it a bit differently, If the full auto parts happen to have been manufactured AFTER the May 1986 cut off date, but NONE of these particular componants are registered as NFA items, are these same parts still able to be bought and possessed by anyoine without any paperwork? Even if these parts consisted of a F/A Sear, a F/A/ Disconnector, and a COMPLETE M16 Full auto Bolt carrier and all necessary assembly parts?

*With regards to my post from yesterday about surplus machinegun parts VERSUS New machinegun parts, there has got to be Somebody out there has got to be able to help me with the correct answers! Will that somebody please reply?
 
There is a difference in parts and in a full MG.

The parts kits you see are usually the remains of a gun after it has been cut on the receiver, via a torch, in three places. The idea is, is that somebody with a registered weapon can buy these parts to repair his or her MG.

Or, if you are the second coming of John Browning, make a semi-auto only gun that can not become full auto, out of these parts. (See the Semi 1919s that have become fairly popular.)

Sounds like Numrich is trying to cover their butt on the so called 'new' parts. New parts are legal to have, as long as you don't have the semi host gun as well. Now most auto versions of the common semiautos you see need more than just parts to make them full auto, but the ATF isn't known for their sense of humor or grasp of engineering. (Such as the 1919 missing a side plate...) Ahem. Anyway, the standard at this point is that you can have, for example, the bolt carrier, sear and disconnector/trigger from a M16, but you can not have any sort of AR15 rifle or AR15 lower receiver around with these same parts.

That example hits close to home for me, since I keep thinking about buying a M16, but with all the ARs I have, I couldn't buy any spare parts for the M16. Phooey!

Confusing, and kinda crazy when you think about it, but what can you do? (Besides either vote Libertarian, buy off some congresscritters and repeal the NFA, or buy a island and move..)

TR
 
This is a very gray area and before you purchase any parts, if so inclined, get a written ruling from ATF beforehand.

IFAIK, it is the individual company's policy on how they handle sales of full auto parts kits and how much effort they want to avoid trouble. Some dealers will sell you the M16 parts only with a copy of your Form 4, while at least one that I know of will sell you the parts, a template to use for drilling holes in the receiver and a video giving you step-by-step instructions to convert an AR to full auto. By themselves, these are merely "parts" and documents. If included with an AR receiever, they constitute a machinegun. Another example is some dealers will not sell you a <16" AR upper unless you provide them with a Form 4 for either a machinegun or a SBR. Others will sell them with no questions asked, leaving it to the buyer to make sure he is legal.

As far as ATF & the .gov are concerned, owning the parts to assemble a machinegun and the gun the parts function in is considered being in possession of that machinegun. They have stated that a person can own all of the M16 full auto parts as long as they do not own a AR-15 (or receiver). Of course, there are exceptions. ATF had classified some parts, such as the DIAS, as being a machinegun by itself.

To further show the absurdity of it all, here is another ruling ATF has made. I own both a Colt M16A1 and a Colt AR-15 SP1. ATF has decided that if I have any M16 spare parts for my M16, I am in possession of an unregisted machinegun merely by the presence of the AR. Likewise, they have graciously allowed me to have one <16" upper for my M16. However, if I own two <16" uppers, my AR-15 becomes an unregistered SBR.
 
I have seen some of the parts kits being advertised as having a letter from the ATF explaining exactly what is and isn't legal to do with the kit included when you buy it.
 
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