FTGTB Not Only a Kimber Issue?

N

NeverAgain26

New member
I have a full size Custom Eclipse II. No problems till about 1700 rounds. All of a sudden I began experiencing FTGTB's.

I read all the posts on Kimber FTGTB's and the Series II Safety threads and felt lucky that my gun was immune.

In speaking to some people on the subject and in some reading, I came across an interesting point: It is not uncommon for any semi-auto to FTGTB if the shooter doesn't hold it firm after the shot is let off. The result being the muzzle flips up and the momentum of the slide dissipates. The result: FTGTB.

Is this true in your opinion? I am wondering if it is my fault in the way I am holding the gun? Or is it the gun? One thing that makes me think it might be the gun is that the FTGTB's began after 1700 rounds.

If it is the gun, is it the Series II? Or might it be the spring? Someone told me to try a heavier spring in the gun. I almost think it might be the spring as if it was the Series II, why did I not have the problem in the first 1700 rounds? Can a spring wear down after 1700 rounds?

It is back at the Custom Shop for the second time in two weeks for the same FTGTB problem. The first time, they adjusted the extractor tension, had 3 shooters fire it and experienced no FTGTB's. They returned the gun the next day.

I tend to doubt that they fired enough rounds through the gun that time. I took it back and told them I had experienced 4 FTGTB's in 64 rounds and it seems they are taking me seriously. I was told they are going to keep shooting the gun until they get an FTGTB. I asked what recourse I had if the gun still had FTGTB's for me. I wasn't told anything except to let them work on the gun and see if they could find the problem.

Has anyone here ever been given a new gun by the manufacturer? Would I be within my rights to ask for one?

Thanks in advance for your help.

NA26
 
FTGTB? Failure to go to bathroom? :D Is your gun properly hydrated?

I personally suspect the extractor all to hell, then put a heavier spring in it, look at barrel lug lock-up and try a Wilson mag. Maybe you can limp wrist a 1911, I haven't been able to.

It don't work for you, does for them, what ammo are you using? Is it factory?
 
Blame the shooter!

Well, in this case, the shooter is blaming himself.

Your 1911 should work fine no matter how you hold it. If it does not, stop blaming yourself. I'm not sure what is the problem, but if you tell the factory "it might be me," then how seriously do you think they will look at your pistol?

I would look at ammo first, then try a new recoil spring (they are cheap enough), then mags.....

I have heard that the series II safety components can be removed, but I don't own a Kimber and wouldn't know this firsthand.

Good luck. Let us know if you find out what the problem was!
 
FTGTB and Kimbers

No, it's not just a Kimber related problem - and I doubt it's related to series 2 vs. series 1 guns. Is this factory ammo or handloads? Has the ammo been checked in one of those handy dandy case guages? I had a lot of trouble with FTGTB in my Kimber - with the problem being less obvious in my Sigs/Colts/HK's. The problem was my ammo wasn't sized right and the tight chamber on the Kimber would prevent the gun from going into battery. I solved the reloading problem and now check all rounds with a case guage (mine is from Dillon). Try different magazines too, it might be a magazine related problem - but I doubt it.
If you want to pull the series 2 stuff out - there are excellent instructions on the 1911 forum under Kimbers - you've posted there so I'll assume you know where to look - the post was a few weeks back and was from DKS (the moderator).
 
What do you mean by FTGTB?

It sounds like what you are talking about is limp-wristing, and yes, you can limp wrist a 1911, and have failures to eject and feed as a result.

Any semi-auto can be limp-wristed, if you ask me. 1911s arent as bad about it as others, though, IMO.
 
Opinion
If a particular gun fails to function due to "limp wristing" for a particular gunner. That gun is not a fit defensive weapon for that gunner. If it is a mechanical problem, fix it. If it is shooter induced, get rid of it or keep it for play only.

Sam
 
If you've shot it those 1,700 rounds without the problem, I doubt if it's your shooting technique.

Could be your cleaning techniques and practices. Have you cleaned it at any time between firing 1 and 1,700 rounds? Specifically, have you cleaned your magazines?

Cruddy mags are slow to feed the next round, which sucks up a lot of the slide return energy to cram the round up the feed ramp and into the chamber so it might not have enough momentum to fully lock the breech.

There's an easy test. Can you give a hard bump to the back of the slide with the heel of your hand and lock it into battery? If so, go to the remedial gun cleaning and lubrication class.... :D
 
FTGTB = Failure to got to battery. I didn't invent the acronym, I'm only using it.

Navy Joe: I am using factory ammo (S & B, Federal Ball ammo, CCI Blazers). I had a smith do a quick job and adjust the extractor and polish a sharp corner on it.

dcmorris 71: I am not blaming myself, but I can question whether I am doing the right thing. I agree a gun should work fine no matter how it is held becaue we don't always have the presence of mind to hold it right when we might really need it most. I didn't blame myself when I brought the gun to Kimber. I told them straight off that the gun was failing to go to battery.

rick_reno: I am assuming my factory ammo is all sized right. I think I would have had this problem beforehand if it were an ammo issue. I have tried different mags and I have had the failures with each one I have tried. I don't think I will pull the Series II safety out as I am not really sure it is Series II related, yet. I saw dsk's excellent posts and while I am sure dsk is right in what fixed his gun, I want to have a good smith look at the gun and his post before I go that route. I tend to think I don't have that problem with tolerances in the safety and it won't fix my gun because I have had 1,700 rounds with no FTGTB's. If I had his problem, it should have shown up before 1700 rounds.

lonegunman: I am gripping the pistol firmly enough but when it recoils, the muzzle flip kicks the gun up rather than back. This can dissipate the slide momentum, but why after 1700 rounds is this happening to me? I have not changed my stance or form in any way. Is there a better way to hold the gun down and in a straight line so the recoil has the proper effect on the slide cycling?

C.R.Sam: I agree with you and as soon as my new permits come in, I am going to buy either an H&K USP45C or a Sig P220. I will look to my Kimber as a target gun and not one that will go bang every time I pull the trigger, until the Kimber proves otherwise to me.

Blackhawk: I am fastidious about cleaning and properly lubing my guns every 100 or so rounds. I read up on cleaning methods and have had some old timers review my cleaning methods and I am satisfied I am cleaning them properly. Even cleaned and lubed, I hit the slide rails with a drop of oil before I shoot them at the range. At about 1700 rounds (after FTGTB) I even pulled the extractor and firing pin and cleaned and lubed them and their channels. I also took the mags apart and cleaned them as well. I was going to try the hard bump on the back of the slide when I get back the gun and have my next FTGTB. If that does it, I will have another piece of information.

I am going to contact Nehemiah Sirkis at Kimber tomorrow. He brought this safety to Kimber and I am sure if it is Series II related, I will find out.

Will keep you all posted. Thanks for your responses.
 
I have had the same problem with several Glocks. They were all bought used, and were very "high mileage". A simple change of the recoil spring/guide rod assembly cured every case.

My Ultra-sized Kimbers in series II, on the other hand, had the problem right out of the box. For me, 200-300 rounds cured it.

Pete
 
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