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FTF sale in Kalifornia
- Thread starter joshua
- Start date
RevolverLover
New member
The drop tests and the approved list only applies to purchasing new handguns.
By FTF I assume you mean private party transfers. Almost any gun* that is in Ca. can be sold to another person in Ca. (or outside it for that matter) provided that you go through a FFL. That is why you see a good many consignment guns on sale at gun shows and gunatoriums, advertised in the classified sections of forums, etc. If you see it at a gun show or store it can be bought.
There is some misunderstanding about this though. Some gunstore owners have there own take on what the laws say, or don't understand. A couple of years back I saw a Colt Combat Commander up for sale in a store on consignment but was told that it was for law enforcement only as they were not on the state approved drop test list. Two weeks earlier I'd bought the same type gun at a store 15 minutes away. But if it's here it can be bought.
* By almost any gun I mean so long as it is not what the state deems to be an "assault weapon" of course. You also can't purchase many guns by mail unless it is a Curio and Relic. Talk with your local gun store owners about their policys.
tipoc
There is some misunderstanding about this though. Some gunstore owners have there own take on what the laws say, or don't understand. A couple of years back I saw a Colt Combat Commander up for sale in a store on consignment but was told that it was for law enforcement only as they were not on the state approved drop test list. Two weeks earlier I'd bought the same type gun at a store 15 minutes away. But if it's here it can be bought.
* By almost any gun I mean so long as it is not what the state deems to be an "assault weapon" of course. You also can't purchase many guns by mail unless it is a Curio and Relic. Talk with your local gun store owners about their policys.
tipoc
Tipoc, thanks for the info. I'm currently in Korea on mil assignment and my way of shopping for guns is via internet mainly guns america and gunbroker. I see too many California FFL dealers having the "Not for sale in California" on eventhough gun is physically in California. I'm thinking some are bought throught the police trade in program after the safety list was establish and are meant for LE or out of state sale. I haven't seen too many FTF auctions in the state of California. I actually have some guns in my safe back in California that I've received offers due to the fact that they are not in the safety list and can't be purchased by a state resident through any other means. Now I know and knowing is half the battle. Thanks to all that posted. josh
Abndoc said:There are no FTF sales in Ca. without a FFL dealer being involved.
Curio and relic rifles or shotguns that are over 50 years old are an exception. No dealer involvement is required when selling to another California resident.
Face-to-Face "FTF" or Private party-to-private party "PTP", same-same.
So if a used handguns coming from a dealer listed in Shotgun news sells to an FFL dealer in California, would those handguns be exempt from the safety list? I'm thinking no, but if someone proves me wrong could you please show a reference in the CA DOJ of its' legality. josh
So if a used handguns coming from a dealer listed in Shotgun news sells to an FFL dealer in California, would those handguns be exempt from the safety list? I'm thinking no, but if someone proves me wrong could you please show a reference in the CA DOJ of its' legality. josh
RevolverLover
New member
So if a used handguns coming from a dealer listed in Shotgun news sells to an FFL dealer in California, would those handguns be exempt from the safety list? I'm thinking no, but if someone proves me wrong could you please show a reference in the CA DOJ of its' legality.
No, the exemption only applies to firearms in state that are not assault weapons. All firearms that are bought out-of-state and tranfered to an FFL in California have to be on the approved list. LEO's are exempt from that requirement.
One last question is, if I'm buying from a gunshop do I have to fill out the FFL paperwork to buy C&R handguns and rifles? I'm asking this because Big-5 clerk said I have to fill one out and endure the waiting period for a Mosin Nagant that he originally quote me as being chambered in 7.62x39 Russian. josh
RevolverLover
New member
One last question is, if I'm buying from a gunshop do I have to fill out the FFL paperwork to buy C&R handguns and rifles? I'm asking this because Big-5 clerk said I have to fill one out and endure the waiting period for a Mosin Nagant that he originally quote me as being chambered in 7.62x39 Russian. josh
Yes you do.
Face-to-Face "FTF" or Private party-to-private party "PTP", same-same.
Private-Party-Transfers usually use the acronym PPT but PTP is fine too.
So if a used handguns coming from a dealer listed in Shotgun news sells to an FFL dealer in California, would those handguns be exempt from the safety list? I'm thinking no, but if someone proves me wrong could you please show a reference in the CA DOJ of its' legality. josh
No. A gun not on the approved list cannot be imported into the state unless it's a C&R and thus exempt.
When you see guns advertised "Not for sale in California" and the gun is offered by a California shop, it generally means someone sold an off-list handgun to a CA dealer for the quick cash, but the dealer cannot resell it inside CA and thus the notice about no CA sales.
Most dealers will allow people to sell their guns through the shop as a consignment sale. The dealer gets anywhere from about 10% to 20% of the sale for use of his shop and FFL. The sales is treated as a PPT as far as the paperwork goes.
All handguns, including C&R handguns must go through an FFL dealer along with the 10-day wait.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a C&R rifle can be purchased using a C&R form instead of a 4473 and taken home the same day (from what I recall).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a C&R rifle can be purchased using a C&R form instead of a 4473 and taken home the same day (from what I recall).
Well, according to the CA Big5 clerk that was working the gun section I had to do the paperwork and suffer the waiting period for a Mosin Nagant. I'm thinking he's just doing what he was told, but he sure didn't have the right attitude to sell any guns, due to his firm belief everyone must go through the cooling off period because it makes the world a whole lot safer. I did tell him I have 30+ guns in my safe and several were grandfathered high capacity so called assault weapons. My personal opinion on this safety list is to put a big burden on gun manufacturers, also to drive prices up. If the safety list was to deem a gun worthy of safety then CA should not imposed an expiration for each tested handgun. josh
BillCA said:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a C&R rifle can be purchased using a C&R form instead of a 4473 and taken home the same day (from what I recall).
Only if you have, in addition to the C&R FFL, a valid Certificate of Eligibility from the Cal DOJ.
You still have to do the DROS paperwork. Legally a 4473 is not required, but many dealers still require one as a CYA.
If you buy a rifle from Big 5 you will have the normal paperwork to fill out and the 10 day wait.
For a PPT to to be legal it must go through a FFL holder. This process legally transfers the gun from their name into your name. There will be paperwork to do and a 10 day wait.
I said before that there is sometimes differences between stores in how they interpret the state and federal laws which can be confusing. I've found that If I want a gun that a dealer has I'll go with their policy on it even if I believe that they are incorrect. It don't benefit me or the dealer for me to argue with him over how he runs his buisness.
tipoc
For a PPT to to be legal it must go through a FFL holder. This process legally transfers the gun from their name into your name. There will be paperwork to do and a 10 day wait.
I said before that there is sometimes differences between stores in how they interpret the state and federal laws which can be confusing. I've found that If I want a gun that a dealer has I'll go with their policy on it even if I believe that they are incorrect. It don't benefit me or the dealer for me to argue with him over how he runs his buisness.
tipoc