Frustrations of a LEO Firearms Instructor

K

Kilroy

New member
I work for a small department of 13 sworn officers. We have a police reserve force of about 20 officers. As the Firearms Instructor I have experienced the following.

Full time officers have a minimum 40 hours of firearms training (handgun, shotgun and use of force) by the time they complete the academy. Our full time officers were given a 20 hour transition course when the department issued pistols for the first time.

Reserve officers are not required to have more then 16 hours of firearms training. The administration feels that the state mandated number of 16 hours is enough. This standard is over 22 years old. Some of these reserves have taken the pistol transition course and others have not.

Failing to pass a qualification test results in one of two things. The officer is required to remain on the range until he happens to shoot a passing score (70%). He may come back some other time and attempt to pass. Failure to pass is not a disability however. This is because of a little event that comes to our town, we must have every officer working. Full time and reserve officrs get scheduled to work this event and nothing will keep them from it (per admin).
We get special permission from the state to allow our reserves to work alone, in the capacity of full time officers. Our little town goes from a population of 7,000 to over 300,000 for about two weeks during this little event.

One full time officer, my predecessor in firearms instruction, is so obese that he cannot hold his arms straight in two handed shooting, causing stoppages in the issue pistol. He was allowed to carry a personally owned handgun.

One reserve, who failed to qualify, has a neurological problem that causes him to shake badly. As he was passed as fit for duty by my predecessor, I get to work with him. Typically, it takes several months of effort to get him to 70%.

A second reserve, who came to us with a resume three inches thick, consistently places his support hand thumb behind the slide. Injuries and failures of the gun, are claimed to be the guns fault. This officer does not like to carry a loaded gun (round chambered) and had to be ordered by the Chief to do so. As he had so much trouble qualifying, he was allowed to work in the absence of such qualification. He worked for us for almost a year and a half, and was required to attend the state's LEO academy. This officer makes just about every mistake a shooter can make, in spite of hours of remedial training. I predicted he would be sent home for failure to qualify and this soon became the case. State level advice kept him from returning to his status as a reserve police officer.

If anything, this highlights the situations where failure to qualify is not seen as something that should keep someone from working. While I may document those failures, administration is reluctant to tell someone that they cannot come and play.
This reluctance is based on not hurting feelings, making everyone feel equal and having enough officers available to cover shifts.

For my part, I document all my efforts and recommendations. My situation is not that unusual in rural America. Our department is not likely to change anything until a tragedy takes place. Current efforts at the state level to make officer certification dependant on firearms qualification have not been well received, but instructors continue that fight.

If you are not in Law Enforcement, ask questions of your local governing bodies as to what standards are expected of your law enforcement, and, if those are consistent with standards nationwide. Chances are, if you are a LEO and are reading this column, you know that of which I speak.

I would be interested in any responses to this column. Thanks for your time and attention.

Kilroy...
...was here
 
I'd go as far as to say that 90% of LEOs are not "gun people." This is not necessarily a bad thing, as many diligently work on improving all their skills, firearms included... Too many, however, do not. I have qualified at the range, and continued practicing FOR HOURS as members of my former department continued to keep trying, some in vain, to reach the seemingly elusive 70% mark. The instructors is question are top notch, so it isn't their fault. It is the attitude that guns are likely to never be discharged in the line of duty, so I'll give it the effort that I feel is appropriate. I can remember free range days, when thousands of rounds would be provided for our use, along with an instructor, and I'd be the only one to show up! There would almost never be more than three of us, out of thirty two- sad really. Oh, it is no suprize that the htree of us who showed up were the highest qualifyers. I illustrate this not to brag, but to make the point that is takes practice to shoot well. My fellow officers who failed to practice, failed..

Erik

PS- I would recommend that you advise the chief to enforce the 70% passing grade- provide ample instances of lawsuites following ADs and bad shootings to drive your point home.
 
Kilroy,
What state do you work in?! The size and general description of your department sounds much like the department where I just got hired on as a reserve! I started the Academy yesterday. Now you have me paranoid that they may be one and the same. I was told at the Academy (and this may or may not be true) that we would receive the EXACT same instruction in self-defense, firearms, and EVOC as the regular officers, because anything less would cause us to be a "liability in the car". Where they cut our instruction short is in criminal law and procedure.
They did mention at the Academy that no one had failed the course since it was started many years ago. I didn't like the sounds of that. I don't expect to be babied through this course and I would rather they didn't do that with anyone. I don't want to be thought of as a sub-standard officer, and by trying to pass everyone (so that the respective departments don't lost the money the paid for the academy and have to go back through the hiring process) I think that sub-standard people are allowed to slip through. There are some traits and characteristics of people that may show up in the Academy that didn't come out in the interviewing process. I had a reserve officer cadet the other day tell me that he liked to be shot at! That's somebody where the "treat others as you would like to be treated" just doesn't work! I'm glad he's with some other department.
Anyway, just my $.02.
By the way, as you are a LEO firearms instructor, I would really like to talk to you about duty weapon selection.
 
John, Amen to that!

------------------
Maintain eternal vigilance. It is the people who are prisoners of their own ignorance about firearms that pose the greatest threat to our 2nd Amendment Rights.
 
Kilroy:

My first experience in law enforcement was as a reserve in Lead, South Dakota some 20 years ago. You are describing the problems I used to see during the motorcycle rally back in the 70's. Back then we used to see some real bad asses up in the Deadwood area. Just out of curiosity, am I even warm?

BTW, in the 70's reserve officers were armed, had POA and worked the rally with no formal firearms training and no need to qualify. Kinda scary ain't it?

[This message has been edited by Ankeny (edited January 09, 2000).]
 
If command staff doesn't place any importance on firearms skills and officer safety, you're not likely to find the troops care very much either. I spent five years as a firearms instructor before I realized that nothing was going to change as long as management claimed they were too busy to go to the range. We ended up with two groups of officers. Those who were very motivated and took every opportunity to train. And those who looked for every excuse imaginable to be excused from firearms training. Unfortunately, the latter group was very large. I finally quit out of frustration. The straw that broke my back was when a senior deputy had a bad guy stick a gun in his belly and he froze. I hauled his chestnuts out of the fire and later asked him what he was thinking of. He made all kinds of excuses but the reality was he never, never, ever in his several years of law enforcement ever expected to have to fight for his life.

When I tried to raise some level of concern in the department that a number of our deputies were just asking to get killed, I was ignored and the incident of the senior deputy freezing was treated as just a rare occurrence and certainly not how the rest of the department would act in the same situation. The senior deputy asked for and received a voluntary demotion. He now works as a baliff in the courts.
 
Greetings all. I retired from 25 years continuous service with a police agency in Texas. For 11 of that 25 years, I served as a firearms instructor for that department including the tactical unit. Fortunately, this department placed strong emphasis on qualifications and being competent with firearms and this training paid off on more than one occassion when push came to very hard shove. If one didn't qualify after 3 attempts, he/she was assigned a desk job and was not allowed to carry a sidearm until that person qualified. The administration backed that and it worked. Still, there was that percentage that looked at qualifications negatively and really didn't have the mindset to be on the street in my opinion. The only reason that they were not dead was because they'd never run into anyone wanting to kill them! To those of you who are frustrated: Hang in there. Give them the training or offer it and tell them the truth. If they don't want to learn or take advantage of it, there's little you can do, but your honor and conscience are intact. There is much to the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but....." You know the rest. Best to all and my sincere appreciation and respect to those behind the badge. Hang in there and never forget that you represent the highest standards in the land.
 
Kilroy, I just thought I'd comment on the reserve officer with neurological problem. I have a similar problem, called 'familial tremor' and I can assure you it can be overcome. I'm never going to be a top competitor but I shoot as well as most of my aquaintances, better than some and had no trouble passing the proficiency part of the Texas CHL. However, I do practice as often as possible.

FYI, there is a medication that can be given for this particular condition but I don't really care for it. It is actually for high blood pressure but affects me like a tranquilizer, I don't like being that mellow!
 
This reminds me that about 10 years ago I was asked to guve some pistol instruction to members of a small police department which was converting from .38 Special revolvers to .357 Magnums. (I do have an NRA unstructor's rating)

Things went faurly well until I began demonstrating rapid tactical and complete reload techniques. One lieutenant said with withering comtempt:
"Any cop who can't get the job done with six rounds should resign!"

I inquired politely "Just where do you go to resign in the middle of a fire fight?"
 
Interesting thread. What does police qualification usually entail? Is it fairly consistent from state to state?
 
I'm a LEO who happens to be very into guns and luckily most of my fellow officers are too. I work for a small dept here in Northeastern PA, 4 full-time, 16 part-timers, I happen to be one of the four full-timers. I shoot on my own very regularly and whenever possible. I will admit that there are some who do not know enough about fireams let alone there own. We have one female officer (part-time) who took her weapon out to qualify and the darn thing looked orange...bit time rust...and you couldn't even pull the hammer back until it was sprayed heavily. I also happen to be prior military service (USMC) so my firearms training and knowledge is pretty extensive. Our chief is also into guns and is always wanting to go shooting. In PA we only have to qualify once a year. We shoot from 25 yds, standing and kneeling....then from 15 yds I think......and we end up shooting some rounds from 3 yds....which is pretty much the realistic distance that a LEO would end up having to draw his weapon and shoot. The chief and our sgt...who are both qualified to qualify us also set up a "stress course" for us to run...giving us shoot/no shoot scenarios....as well as having us run....to get our blood and adrenaline pumping...I must say it was pretty darn interesting. We also qualify with the 12 ga shotgun and we also train with the 7.62x39 SKS's. Some of the other local depts use the AR-15's and Mini 14's. So, while some depts aren't very gun smart...there are a few of us that are. Stay safe
 
definately sounds like sturgis. or the way things are going with events could be rio rojo new mex. (nope that is only a 3 day event) not being leo i find it interesting the amount of leo's who shoot only to qualify. i have spoke to more than 1 leo about their carry gun and the response was " oh you mean my gun i don't really know it is what i was issued or had to buy. i dont really like guns"!!!!
when asked why they are cops i was told the pay and benefits are good. kind of scarey eh?
to serve and protect. thank god i carry.
i really feel for you gun friendly leo's who are put in this position and have to "higher up" deal with it. you might mention to the town council the "liability factor" if a shooting occured by one of your men. lawsuits seem to get everybody's attention
 
here to brag! My dept. has 14 guys and only 3 non-shooters! The rest of us compete in a local pistol league for LEO's and practice together when possible. We would do more tactical if the budget would allow. I am very proud of being their instructor and have great fun at that part of my job. I feel sorry for some of you with your horror stories or less than enthusiastic officers.
 
Yikes, talk about a lawsuit waiting to happen. Don't the higher ups realize what a liability these officers are? Not only will the receiving end of a ND or AD have a good case, they will have a well documented case, as I don't think you would purger yourself for the sake of the dept.


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Peace through superior firepower...
Keith

If the 2nd is antiquated, what will happen to the rest.
"the right to keep and bear arms."
 
I've been an LEO F/I for abour 17 years and I've seen what you are describing. You are doing well to document evrything. Things changed for the better when we made policy that after basically four atempts to qualify
you had to pack your bags and go job hunting.
( Helps to have an admin staff that are all
good shooters )No one has ever had to do that
because they get real serious ( and so do I )
after they fail the first three times. We disarm them for up to 90 days so there is no
overtime or details to work and we have had
a few quit rather than constantly face having to go through this process. Your Chief has to know he can be personally sued if a situation
goes babd because of a lack of training.

Things you can do:
1. Make it ( the range ) a social affair. Cook some burgers and weiners get people to
brag ( or complain ) about their shooting.
When they get to the "Why don't we..." stage thats a good place for the Chief to overhear"

2. Ask some other LEO Instructor to come and help you. You know your never an expert in your own department. Get some guy who probably don't know anymore than you do about
FAT. But your people will listen to him. The
next time you donate your time to his dept. and your the "expert"

3. Start a shooting team with your reserves.
This will drive the regulars nuts and you can document it as firearms training.

I know it may seem a losing battle but you have to be the motivator. Post a top ten list
on the bulletin board, give shooting medals away ( some times out of your own pocket )

And then start developing firearms instructors. NRA has a good little one week
Firearms development course. I've been twice because you never stop learning.

You can do it ( run forrest Run! )

You the man.


[This message has been edited by bobo (edited January 11, 2000).]
 
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