From the horse's ar$e..... huh-hum ... mouth

Our community newspaper, the Wanneroo Times has a "question-and-answer" section, where you can ask our State Commissioner for Police (the head honcho) various questions.

Here's the current one:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Take steps for protection

Question: A shopkeeper who recently used pepper spray to repel an assault and attempted robbery is said to be facing possible charges of using an unlicensed weapon.

In a climate in which home invasions are scaring the elderly, should they have the right to use a pepper spray without fear of prosecution?


Answer: Through the recent enactment of the Weapons Act 1999, the State Government is committed to safeguarding the public by reducing the number of weapons on the street. Under this act (sic), capsicum spray is categorised as a controlled weapon, and possession of a controlled weapon without lawful excuse is an offence which carries a maximum $4 000 fine or imprisonment for one year.

The Weapons Act does, howver, provide that capsicum spray may be used in lawful defence in circumstances such as the threat or apprehension of physical assault. The onus remains at law on the person to establish that the use of the spray was reasonable. I fully understand the fear in our community -- especially among the elderly -- in the light of such incidents reported in the media.

On the other hand, I am similarly concerned about our citizens carrying weapons for the purpose of self-defence. These countermeasures being adopted by our community could have an adverse effect, in that they would breed more violence. We would then have a situation of increasing the rate of harm, instead of minimising it.

Any individual, to raise his or her own level of security and safety, can adopt many alternative precautions. For example:

• Be aware of their surroundings (??????)
• Install a security system appropraite for personal safety needs
• Have security screens fixed over flyscreens or open window space and security doors positioned at all entry points
• Obtain a personal alarm that can be activated if they feel personally threatened
• Join Neighbourhood Watch

All these steps combine to help deter criminals and assist police to detect and investigate offenders.

Please call the Police Service. It is better to be safe than sorry.[/quote]

OK, now ... why did I bother to post this? A couple of reasons:

1. I want to respond to this piece of cr@p in the strongest possible terms this side of getting arrested, and would appreciate any input you may care to give me. I just can't believe this jerk said these things.

2. I would like the article to serve as a further illustration to my US friends that getting rid of the guns is just the beginning -- it gets worse from there on.

(Note: No, we can't vote this bloke out of office -- he's appointed by the Government and we have no say in it.)

(Note 2: Is it just me, or do others see something contradictory in his very last sentence???)

B
 
Be aware of your surroundings? In your own home? That's some good advice there. Thanks, pal, really helped.

Hard to argue with someone who thinks that any level of resistance to vicious predators is only going to escalate violence. So what? Its not the amount of violence, its making sure that the correct people have violence visited upon them. You'll have a hard time convincing an elitist/statist of that though.
 
This piece of government advice is so damned crazy that all I can say is that it's crazy. Anyone who wants the state to have the monopoly of lethal force either lives in a subjunctive universe contrary to fact and belongs under professiopnal supervision, or is a totalitarian.

Sorry about the way things are, Bruce.
 
Very interesting article from the land down under, and I hope to never see such moronic stuff printed here. These people just don't have a clue do they? I'd have to say that guy is a maroon
Thanks for the article, A good reminder to us here not to let this happen.

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
You may wish to point out that your "surroundings" have become increasingly more dangerious since the new anti-gun/self defense laws. :mad:
Another point that never ceases to whiz me severly is their seemingly simple suggestion that people use various security systems. The elderly and people living in less than ideal neighborhoods are the most frequent targets of such crimes and the very ones that receive this suggestion. I don't know about Australia but here they are also the very ones that are least able to afford such a system. Nor can they afford to place bars on their windows. Bars on windows are much more costly than a gun. ot to mention the cost of an alarm system. An alarm system by the way is only as affective as the police response time to calls. Let's assume everyone in the country that felt at risk could afford such a system and had it installed. Alarm systems are notorious for false alarms requiring police response. If everyone installed them the police force would be put out of service. They do, however, offer you the option of burning to death in a house fire rather than being killed at the hands of a well armed criminal that cares nothing about abiding by gun laws.
Neighborhood watches are wonderful things. But unfortunatley the police will be too damn busy answerring alarm calls to response when your neighbor calls to tell them you are being killed by another well armed criminal.
You may also ask the cheif if he leaves his gun at work when he goes home. :mad: If he does take his gun home perhaps anyone that feels at risk can caome stay at his house with him. Since they can not own a gun to protect themselves they will feel very secure at his house with his alarm system, barred windows and secure in the knowledge that he has a gun to defend himself and his family.

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Gunslinger
 
I can only hope that Australia already has an unreported civil war going on. I know full well what sort of drastic steps some of my neighbors would consider appropriate in similar circumstances.
 
Bruce, I think it was probably you that helped us see these absurdities some time ago ... on the New South Wales police web site. I was just trying to find the page that lists all the 'weapons' your state disallows, but can't run it down ...

Anyway, thanks for posting this.

I think the real solution is to require that the LEO's can't have any weapons disallowed to the law-abiding public. Otherwise we'll always have this cute game of 'I can defend myself, but you can't'. Crap.

I honestly believe that the individuals who pass and enforce such laws are a small step above the criminals who actually perpetrate the crimes. And, perhaps they are more evil, since they know full well they leave otherwise helpless people with no self defense at all.

Regards from AZ
 
Nothing on Earth pisses me off more than that "You will only escalate the violence" crap. That raises the question why is escalation bad, if I'm getting killed, then escalating the violence that my attacker is receiving isn't going to make it any worse for me. Stupid idiots.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Be aware of their surroundings (??????)[/quote]

In my own home? While I'm asleep? I'd like to see that little trick, maybe the State Commissioner would care to demonstrate it for us?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Install a security system appropraite for personal safety needs[/quote]

Adequate security systems tend to run up into four digits to buy the gear and pay for it to be installed. Then you have to pay the monthly fee. Will the Commissioner be supplementing those people who can't afford an 'adequate' system?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Have security screens fixed over flyscreens or open window space and security doors positioned at all entry points[/quote]

If they can't get in, you can't get out. On that note, be sure to leave the keys with the local Fire Department in case of flaming emergencies. And who's paying for these screens?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Obtain a personal alarm that can be activated if they feel personally threatened[/quote]

I would also suggest keeping a jar of vaseline near the alarm in case you do have to use it. Annoyed critters have been known to put such alarms in the most inconvienent anatomical places.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All these steps combine to help deter criminals and assist police to detect and investigate offenders.[/quote]

And the paying Public would like to know how many of these steps are being used personally by the Commissioner? And if (if, I say) he is using such steps, how big of a bite has it taken out of his paycheck?

:mad: Morons.

LawDog
 
So this government official says the only way to be safe is to build a prison to live in. And then still be aware,, In your own home?

Oh yea and call the police.. I understand the police do what they can, but by the time they arrive the crime would have already been committed and the perps gone along their merry way.

Doesn't sound much like freedom to me..

Mark / Fl
 
"devices designed to stun or disorient people by emitting noise and light (sound & flash grenades)"

i wonder, if they wanted to be technical about it, if they count blasting a Surefire in someones eyes.

I'm surprised they haven't prohibited yo-yos umbrellas, canes, sharp paper, ballpoint pens, walking sticks, chopsticks, etc.

just a matter of time before you can only use crayons and butcher paper like people in the psychiatric wards..
 
"Hand 'em over before WE hurt you!" would be more honest.

As to what you should do, we're not allowed to discuss that sort of thing on this site, and it's not the sort of thing you WANT to discuss publicly.

Leave, submit and stop complaining, or fight. It's not like the OTHER side would hesitate to kill YOU.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
Has anyone checked the ozone layer over Australia lately?
This guy has obviously had an overdose of ultraviolet.
 
The onus is for the person to prove that lethal/ protective force is necessary...

WTF? I know it is similar here in the States, but in you own home or business?

Also, what sort of weapon was the bad guy carrying, if a firearm, aren't they illegal?


[This message has been edited by hube1236 (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
Bruce - don't take offense with what I'm about to say. . . .

but you are in the minority in Australia.

This politician isn't telling the people anything that isn't "common sense" to them. His words reflect the majority of the populace - maybe it's brainwashing, maybe not.

In short, this article merely reflects how most Australians think wrt. personal defense, etc.

The idea of someone carrying even an everyday device that's useful as a weapon (cut off fat end of a pool cue) is something that will make most Australians want the person arrested. (BTW - not sure but I think the pool cue is illegal - it was borderline back when I knew a friend who carried one).

99.9% of the population will read this and believe that the prohibition on spray keeps them safer. At least "collectively" safer.

Gun control and communism are part and parcel - if you sat down and talked it out with someone they may eventually agree that they PERSONALLY would be better off in a nasty situation with a weapon; but that the collective/society would be worse off because those weapons were "on the streets" to be used against them.

Oh, BTW - not just Australian-bashing, this attitude is actually predominant in the US as well, just not QUITE as severely. I still consider a majority out there do not favor Vermont-style carry for instance.

Even states were carry is permitted, there is licencing, and many draconian restrictions on mag capacity, as well as restricting other weapons (blades, etc).

Battler.

[This message has been edited by Battler (edited July 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Battler (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
Ah yes. The ol' "Weapons Make People Violent" argument.

Allowing old people to carry pepper spray would escalate violence how? Roving gangs of the elderly visciously preying on the young? 80 year-old pepper spray snipers picking off people from bell towers? Irate blue-hairs pepper spraying anyone who dares drive faster than 30 MPH?

I can't believe I'm from the same species as these people. Today I've come to the sad realization that if I want to accurately access the frame of mind of the average person, I should assume that they are 4 years-old. Try it. You'll see how pitifully correct I am.
 
That Australian police web site shows a photo of body armor along with stun guns, sling shots, and the other dangerous weapons.
Surely they aren't afraid you'll harm someone with a kevlar panel. It must be illegal to try to avoid being shot or stabbed now.
 
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