French MAS 49/56 in .308 win

R

Rome

New member
I started a thread in the "reloading" forum but would like to expose my questions to you other TLFers who might be able to help me answer an important question.

I purchased an MAS 49/56 today, as part of my collection of SA military rifles from 1940-1965. As all of you know, I'm sure, most of these SLR (self loading rifles) were converted to ".308 Win" caliber due primarily to the fact that the original ammunition is very hard to find.

The dealer told me to shoot 8mm ball milsurp in this model. The tags that came with the rifle also say "This rifle has been converted to 7.52 x 51 Win". Now, the ammo dealer I went to (at the same show) had a huge sign for 8mm milsurp brass ammo. The boxes said 7.62 x 51mm ball. The case of the rounds says FNM - 81 - 19.

Now I've hand fitted a round into the chamber of this rifle and it fits perfectly. So, can I assume that this 7.62 x 51mm ball milsurp (sold as 8mm milsurp) is the correct ammo for the MAS 49/56 conversion? I'd sure like to clear this up. I'm pretty confident that everything is cool but I would like the confidence of some of you really experienced TFLers. Maybe someone else owns this rile?

Rome
 
Well I cannot see how 8x57 ball could fit in a 7.62x51 chamber. The MAS 49/56 are originally made for the French 7.5x54, which is a bit longer than the nato round. Someone thought to shorten and rechamber the barrel, and voila, your rifle was born. There is a review of this rifle on the JPFO.org site that discusses this rifle, and the remedy of the possible cycling problems. If I remember right, it stems from no change being made to the gas system, even though the 308 runs at higher pressures.

I feel there was some sort of mis-communication between you and the dealer. 8mm has nothing to do with the rifle. It has been converted to 7.62x51 NATO. Hope this helps.
 
Hold on...

Something sounds very strange here. I don't know much about the specific rifle you have, but that sort of inaccurate communication would have me worried.

Prior to shooting the rifle I'd make sure the ammo was indeed 7.62x51. My thinking here is that the 7.62 should not be over pressure in a 8mm chamber. But - 8mm in a 7.62 would damge the rife and more importantly - you.

The more I think about it the less I like it. If it were mine, I'd probably have a chamber cast done to confirm the cartridge it's chambered for and slug the barrel to determine bore diameter. Tags can fall off and be placed on the wrong rifle by some clerk. The person you got it from and the ammo dealer seem to have a screw loose as to the differences between 8mm and 7.62x51.

Be carefull!!!

Giz
 
Geeze what a mixup! 99% of surplus 8mm ammo is 8mm Mauser (8x57). As said above these guns were never chambered for this cartrige and it is NOT anywhere close to being 7.62x51! Do NOT try and fire 8mm ammo in this gun! It`s common to see MASs converted to 7.62x51 so that`s probably what you have but because of the confussion you sould have it checked by a smith to be sure. Marcus
 
I've already contacted someone who will check the rifle out for me before it's fired. I've cleared up the ammo situation and no longer confused or concerned about this. This rifle had a very common conversion to .308 win. The ammo I've got is just that.

As for the history of these weapons, they have been pretty well documented and I've gotten the bulk of the skinny on them. I'm adding it to my collection of SLR (self loading rifles) and, while I want to be able to fire it properly, it won't be my "everyday shooter". Rather a piece of the collection.

I certainly appreciate the help and concern. Rest assured that I'm EXTREMELY cautious about this stuff and simply needed a clarification about the different ammos.

Rome
 
Rome....

I think that I read an article SOMEWHERE that these rifles that were converted to .308 WIN had extraction problems do to the rough chambers left after the conversion proccess. Just thought you would like the heads up!---DAROGUE1
 
MAS 49/56 conversion

Thanks for the info. I was aware of the problems but they were primarily confined to the earliest conversions. I've researched this quite a bit and found that the later models, while still exhibiting a few problems, don't have the propensity to jam. I'm going to check this example out at the range this evening. The seller told me that this particular rifle shot perfectly, without any hitches. If it does hiccup, however, I found an smith in Pennsylvania who is an expert on the modification and can adjust the gas pressure which is the primary cause of most problems.

There were literally thousands of these rifles imported to the US, most of them by CAI from what I understand. Surprizingly enough, the French, themselves, issued many of the MAS 49/56 rifles in the .308 conversion. And, both models are clearly listed as C&R by the ATF. So, while there are definately problems with some MAS rifles, the vast majority are good, reliable shooters.

Finally, I think the proof is in the pudding. Just try to find one to buy....anywhere. They are a very handsome rifle. The stock is almost pistol thin; quite a difference from my M1. But they are much more "engineered" than the SKS. The demand for these MAS rifles must be very high because the internet is bare and most of the gun shows only have one or two and they are usually beaters. I got really lucky, myself, and am thrilled that I was able to add this one to my collection. I'll bet that the SKS will find itself in the same predicament in the coming years. I also just read that an importer had a cache of the arrive a few days ago and was sold out almost overnight! That has to say something about these pieces.


Rome
 
Rome,

Where is your smith in PA? My father is having some extraction problems with his MAS, and wants to have it looked over. (He is just west of Harrisburg.)

Thanks,

Marty
 
MAS contact

MBG:
Have your Dad go to this website print off this article. It is probably the definitive discussion about the MAS in .308 conversion and was done very professionally by a great group of enthusiests. In addition, you'll find a number of sources listed including the smith in PA who does this repair. I've seen his name mentioned just about everywhere this MAS conversion is discussed. I've got a call into him myself and asked him to return a call to me when he has a moment.

Please let me know what your results are and any of the particulars like costs and turnaround. You can email me directly if you'd like.

Rome

http://www.jpfo.org/masrifle.htm
 
Range Report on the MAS 49/56 in .308

I just wanted you all to know that the MAS 49/56 that I recently purchased worked flawlessly this eveing. I ran about 100 rounds through it in both slow fire and rapid fire. Not once did it FTE or FTF or jamb. And, this rifle has not had the gas system altered. I actually figured I try to get it to jamb so I ran 30 round of slow fire initially and then ran 20 round of rapid fire after it was nice and hot. It ran through the Portugese .308 NATO flawlessly,flinging the brass nicely away and punching on the black at 100 yards on a B8 target off the bench. From the off-hand position, it was really easy to site and was really fun to shoot. Almost as nice as my M1 but lacking a little of the punch. It has a really thin wrist which makes it easy to hold and aim.

Anyway, I'd read so many horror stories of these rifles becoming "clubs" afer 40 rounds or so that I was ready to suffer the consequences. It really pleased me that I found a really good example, however.

Rome
 
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