gentlemen-ladies,-freedom-where does this concept come from?from what culture,from what period in history.is it a universal concept, or is it specific to a certain group.do all languages even have a word for it.---i gotta go to work,i hope someone can give me some input.thanks ---arthur
freedom
- Thread starter arthur
- Start date
gentlemen,thanks for the replies.the reason for the question is simply because i see a dilution of my freedom all the time.and i am wondering how and why people could and do accept this dilution.could it be that even though germans and russians have the word freedom in their language,they never actually had freedom by our definition whereas americans at the founding had freedom defined and written down and could-did have freedom by that definition.and is the american definition of freedom different than other cultures definition of freedom.i mean is our freedom being redefined to match that which is -allowed -in other cultures.thanks --arthur
Miss Demeanors
New member
Dennis, Svoboda! Love it! 
Freedom or Liberty!
Whew! There are as many definitions as there are people; so, when in
doubt, I refer to Webster’s Ninth Collegiate Dictionary. It's not the six-inch thick unabridged job used by some - but I must use what I have.
Under “freedom” are many definitions, but the one closest to our thread
seems to be:
“the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action.”
Under synonyms is the following discussion:
“Freedom, liberty, and license mean the power or condition of acting
without compulsion. Freedom has a broad range of application from total
absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or
frustrated. Liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion.
License implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote
an abuse of freedom.”
The nuances of meaning surely have been debated and will continue to
be debated among scholars and non-scholars alike. For me, I have to
keep definitions simple if I am to understand and remember their
application. Surely that introduces some level of inaccuracy.
I believe our rights extend to the tip of the other guy’s nose. So long as
we do not injure or oppress others without due cause, I believe we
should leave each other to our own opinions.
For me to enforce my values upon you would be oppression. Therefore,
your views, as interesting as I may find them, are uniquely yours. We
can discuss each other’s views, we can try to “convert” each other (
),
but we shouldn’t try to enforce our views on others unless one of us is
causing a problem.
So, it seems to me that whole mess is filled with value judgements! I
may feel hunting is wrong - you are “oppressing” those poor, cute little
ground squirrels (that’s for DC ). But until the effects of your
murderous .22 rifle go off your property, I really don’t think it’s any of
my business.
Same thing for most political, philosophical, and religious opinions. If
you don’t want guns on your property, that’s your business. If you don’t
want guns on MY property - the fight’s on!
Freedom or Liberty? Which are we supposed to have? Well, I'll let the real scholars sort it out. Me? I want both, for both of us.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 27, 1999).]
Whew! There are as many definitions as there are people; so, when in
doubt, I refer to Webster’s Ninth Collegiate Dictionary. It's not the six-inch thick unabridged job used by some - but I must use what I have.
Under “freedom” are many definitions, but the one closest to our thread
seems to be:
“the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action.”
Under synonyms is the following discussion:
“Freedom, liberty, and license mean the power or condition of acting
without compulsion. Freedom has a broad range of application from total
absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or
frustrated. Liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion.
License implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote
an abuse of freedom.”
The nuances of meaning surely have been debated and will continue to
be debated among scholars and non-scholars alike. For me, I have to
keep definitions simple if I am to understand and remember their
application. Surely that introduces some level of inaccuracy.
I believe our rights extend to the tip of the other guy’s nose. So long as
we do not injure or oppress others without due cause, I believe we
should leave each other to our own opinions.
For me to enforce my values upon you would be oppression. Therefore,
your views, as interesting as I may find them, are uniquely yours. We
can discuss each other’s views, we can try to “convert” each other (
),but we shouldn’t try to enforce our views on others unless one of us is
causing a problem.
So, it seems to me that whole mess is filled with value judgements! I
may feel hunting is wrong - you are “oppressing” those poor, cute little
ground squirrels (that’s for DC
). But until the effects of yourmurderous .22 rifle go off your property, I really don’t think it’s any of
my business.
Same thing for most political, philosophical, and religious opinions. If
you don’t want guns on your property, that’s your business. If you don’t
want guns on MY property - the fight’s on!
Freedom or Liberty? Which are we supposed to have? Well, I'll let the real scholars sort it out. Me? I want both, for both of us.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 27, 1999).]
Jedi Oomodo
New member
DC,
Israel was ruled by the Judges before they EVER had a king. It wasn't until several hundred years after Joshua (my namesake!) died, when Samuel was an old man, that the Israelites came to Samuel and said they wanted a king so they could be like other nations. They forgot that they were supposed to be dedicated to God, and different from the other nations. See any modern day parallels, hmmmm? 
------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
Israel was ruled by the Judges before they EVER had a king. It wasn't until several hundred years after Joshua (my namesake!
) died, when Samuel was an old man, that the Israelites came to Samuel and said they wanted a king so they could be like other nations. They forgot that they were supposed to be dedicated to God, and different from the other nations. See any modern day parallels, hmmmm? ------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
Jedi...
RE the Israelites. True, they did have judges until they decided they wanted a king like the other kids had. However, the Judges weren't selected by the people....good or bad. Regardless of how benevolent the gov't is, there is no freedom if those that are governed have no say and control over those who govern. Without that control, any "freedom" can be taken away when those that govern cease to be benevolent.
Dennis...
I murder those flea ridden communist rodents on my neighbors' property too. Murder? Nah, I am the grim reaper of Rodenticide. Of course they want me to...ever had to put down a horse who broke his leg in a squirrel burrow?
------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
RE the Israelites. True, they did have judges until they decided they wanted a king like the other kids had. However, the Judges weren't selected by the people....good or bad. Regardless of how benevolent the gov't is, there is no freedom if those that are governed have no say and control over those who govern. Without that control, any "freedom" can be taken away when those that govern cease to be benevolent.
Dennis...
I murder those flea ridden communist rodents on my neighbors' property too. Murder? Nah, I am the grim reaper of Rodenticide. Of course they want me to...ever had to put down a horse who broke his leg in a squirrel burrow?
------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
Jedi Oomodo
New member
True, the Judges were appointed by God, not by the people. Since this is a firearms board, we won't get into a theological discussion about ancient Israel's leadership, or lack thereof (ala Samson the Jughead). Suffice it to say that their "government" was not oppressive or tyrannical, as long as the rulers were mindful of their responsibility to God and the people to be just and fair. God told Samuel, and Samuel the people, that if they persisted in demanding a king, they would get one... but he would become an oppressor. They said "We don't care! Give us a king!" The OT books Judges and I & II Samuel are an excellent example of what happens to a society that becomes indifferent to the rules they are supposed to live by and cherish.
------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
Suffice it to say that their "government" was not oppressive or tyrannical, as long as the rulers were mindful of their responsibility to God and the people to be just and fair. God told Samuel, and Samuel the people, that if they persisted in demanding a king, they would get one... but he would become an oppressor. They said "We don't care! Give us a king!" The OT books Judges and I & II Samuel are an excellent example of what happens to a society that becomes indifferent to the rules they are supposed to live by and cherish.------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isn't Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
OK… here is what I cam up with…. The earliest-known written appearance of the word freedom (ama-gi) or liberty was written about 2300 B.C. in the Sumerian city-state of Lagash.
------------------
Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
------------------
Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
DC,
I understand about the horse - at least superficially.
If you'd like to come here and shoot armadillos you'd be as welcome as a summer shower! (a rare but pleasant occurance!)
We have more armdillos than Clintons have lies! (both the President AND her husband).
And them armadillos are hard to kill! Gettin' a brain shot is like trying to find an honest politician - theoretically possible but very rare!
I understand about the horse - at least superficially.
If you'd like to come here and shoot armadillos you'd be as welcome as a summer shower! (a rare but pleasant occurance!)
We have more armdillos than Clintons have lies! (both the President AND her husband).
And them armadillos are hard to kill! Gettin' a brain shot is like trying to find an honest politician - theoretically possible but very rare!