frangibles?

T

troy_mclure

New member
who uses frangible ammo like glasier, and magsafe for ccw?

i ended up buying a pack of magsafes a few years ago i dont cary them any more.

heard too much about lack of accuracy, failure to continue thru glass, and other problems.

was i too premature in droping them?

im loaded with soft lead wadcutters, or hornady tap, depending on which mag i grab.
 
what you carry

I'll preface the answer with a statement.

As with the advent of new bullets have come into the market within the last decade or so they have limits and uses. So, you have to consider what works overall for your intended purposes. Everyone has something in mind.

Frangibles are ideal for home defense as they are designed to not overpower into the next several neighbors homes. I'm sure your neighbors want you to protect yourself but I'm sure they don't want a hole in their home or in them.

With that said. Is this a good carry round? Too be totally truthful I don't know. Everyone has an opinion +/-

What I do know is what you do carry I recommend you shoot a few boxes of it every year or so. I see so many people buy just a box of carry ammo and never really shoot it. When and if you are ever in a position that you have to use your sidearm in an emergency is not the time to find out that it has a failure to feed or some other problems in your gun (point of impact, etc).

The reason to shoot it often does several things.
1) you know it works in your gun
2) you know how it works in your gun - is it loaded +P, how much flash, etc
3) you cycle out "old" the ammo

I know it's a bit pricey to shoot but it is something everyone needs to do.
 
Any ammo that actually specifies which load to use for properly penetrating clothing in colder climates is suspect to me.

Glasers seem notorious for being so good at not penetrating that they, well, don't penetrate. They're also (IMO) not truly "fragibles" because they already "franged" (my word there:)). I consider "frangibles" to be solid bullets that fragment on impact, the way varmint rounds often do.


Also, from the Glaser website:

"Glaser Blue penetrates five to seven inches in International Ballistic Wound Association protocol testing, while silver penetrates eight to ten inches in the IWBA testing protocol."

I believe something like 10-12 inches is often considered a minimum, with 18 being preferred by many. If I'm correctly remembering an argument... er, um, "discussion" in another thread a few weeks ago.
 
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I look at it this way; frangible bullets are designed to break apart on impact while tactical bullets that are bonded (Gold Dots, HST, SXT, Golden Saber) are designed to stay together to penetrate to a given depth. The way you stop a threat is by disrupting the functions of the threats body (i.e. reach the vitals) A bullet that is designed not to penetrate is not an ideal bullet for self defense. A bullet that does not stay together to penetrate deeply and destroy as much soft tissue and blood vessles is also not ideal for self defense.
 
oldkim writes:
Frangibles are ideal for home defense as they are designed to not overpower into the next several neighbors homes. I'm sure your neighbors want you to protect yourself but I'm sure they don't want a hole in their home or in them.
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Glasers are designed to disintegrate in flesh, not common building materials.

It's a common misconception that Glasers breakup when passing through sheet rock, plywood, siding, etc. Glaser does not. Glaser penetrates these materials like a lightweight FMJ bullet.

MagSafe will perform similarly, except MagSafe SWAT, which is designed specifically to disintegrate in sheetrock.

TroyMclure writes:
im loaded with soft lead wadcutters, or hornady tap, depending on which mag i grab.
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You're using "soft lead wadcutters" in an auto pistol? I assume you meant revolver?

peetzakilla writes:
I believe something like 10-12 inches is often considered a minimum, with 18 being preferred by many. If I'm correctly remembering an argument... er, um, "discussion" in another thread a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Simplistically, IWBA recommends 12.5 - 16 inches penetration to ensure robust, reliable expansion performance.

Cheers!
 
Any ammo that cannot penetrate far enough into the body of a man from the side wearing a winter coat and strike vital organs I will NEVER depend my life on...
 
"...soft lead wadcutters..." They won't break a windshield either. Mind you, trying to stop a moving vehicle with a handgun is silly. Why do you care if a bullet won't go through glass in the first place?
 
Glasers are designed to disintegrate in flesh, not common building materials.

It's a common misconception that Glasers breakup when passing through sheet rock, plywood, siding, etc. Glaser does not. Glaser penetrates these materials like a lightweight FMJ bullet.
Click to expand...

While I can't speak to the design intent, I can tell you that I've run the penetration tests through drywall several times for classes, TV and Training Videos and the Glaser handgun rounds always have broken apart in the first or second wall section and penetrate many fewer "rooms" than typical modern handgun bullets. TAP 5.56 and birdshot also generally perform very well from the standpoint of not posing a threat to people many rooms away if you miss your intended bad-guy.

***

On the topic of frangibles, keep in mind that the Glaser type Pre-Fragmented round is very different from the lead-free Frangible training ammo (sometimes labelled "sintered" ) that is becoming more and more popular. I used this type of ammo exclusively at VTC for many years and tested about a dozen different types. This ammo Does Not break up in typical soft building material (wood, drywall, etc). They don't penetrate as well as lead because they are significantly lighter (50-70% of typical bullet weight in any given caliber), but they do maintain shape and will rip through drywall like ball ammo. We shot it into 1/4" mild steel backstops to break it into dust.

-RJP
 
frangibles

i bought magsafe swat .45. very light "bullet", 96 grains, or something close to that. 3 inches away from point of aim at 10 yards, high, low, all over the target.
then i shot frozen turkeys. lots of frontal damage, but didn't penetrate enough to get a major organ in a large man.
verdict: good ammo if you can insert barrel in bogey's mouth.


switch to +p jhp's. find the load you like and train with it.
 
While I can't speak to the design intent, I can tell you that I've run the penetration tests through drywall several times for classes, TV and Training Videos and the Glaser handgun rounds always have broken apart in the first or second wall section and penetrate many fewer "rooms" than typical modern handgun bullets.
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Glaser performance through common building materials is inconsistent. Sometimes it will disintegrate sometimes it will remain completely intact, with the majority of times, in tests I've performed and witnessed, it remained intact. Thus if anyone expects Glaser to breakup when it hits a wall, in the event of an errant shot, he/she is likely to be in for an unpleasant surprise.

I'm unaware of few people who regard a .410 shotgun loaded with birdshot as a formidable defense weapon. Glaser and MagSafe produce are loaded with less birdshot and produce less wound trauma than .410.

Want to minimize wall penetration? Buy a 12 guage shotgun. Load it with birdshot.
 
Want to minimize wall penetration? Buy a 12 guage shotgun. Load it with birdshot.
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I can certainly agree with that.... we usually end the demos with this choice. Provided you have a realistic distance between you and the first wall (accounting for distance to a person who is threat, etc...), there is rarely dangerous penetration through more than one wall.

Also, to clarify a bit to my first post, I've used .38, 9mm and .45 Blue-tip Glasers in the demos I was referencing.


*****
 
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