FOUP II

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Yea, maybe, I still got my $50. Though I think the issue is hotter and the environment more conducive to success, the biggest obstacle to overcome is exposure and mindshare. We need an angel ($$$) and a coalescing issue - a situation so blindingly obvious (and egregious?) that none of the nanny-nah-nahs would dare assail the need (& right)for self defense. Since they're trying to make this a 'woman's issue', we too, need sometihng with a ton of emotion, e.g. a list of women killed in non-CCW states while they were 'protected' by active restraining orders. Case studies of women who have successfully defended themselves in horrible circumstances after being ignored by the establishment and 'system'. Case studies that burn home the point that your (and your family's)safety is your responsibility, don't let them limit your obtions. 911 or 9mm, your choice, with graphic example of those who made the wrong choice. Reason and logic are already on our side, but getting us no where. This is a battle for hearts and minds, and it demands more than a manifesto, it requires very powerful, easy to grasp reasons why the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment are crucial to your continued quality of life, and why the MMM are WRONG.

Just my thoughts, M2
 
I would love to try that again. This time TFL might have the # of members to do it. However the last time was probably a lot of work for the individuals directly involved and they might not want to gamble their time again. I have $50 let's go!

Later
Daren
 
When the idea of FOUP was first presented I agreed with the intent. However, it was my feeling that the then present atmosphere was charged against the idea. There were lots of emotional letters written and lots of emotional turning of heads due to the current events of the day. It reminded me of a time when a demand went out for people to do something. Something. Right or wrong didn't matter as long as something was done. That other time was in the early 60's when a young girl named Kitty Genovese(sp) was stabbed to death in NYC. 33 eyewitnesses "didn't want to get involved". The news was a topic for years after, sometimes even overshodowing the reports of the Vietnam War, and the race riots that rocked the country. Everywhere people were turning on, tuning in and dropping out. It seems incongrous(sp) that in such an atmosphere, people would want to become involved. They did however. The end result of that involvement is now sitting on his throne on Pennsylvania Ave. I thought of these events as I read about the MMM, and their demands that "something" be done. They didn't know what it should be, but as long as "something" was done, it would be fine by them. The last "something" ultimatly(sp) gave us the most corrupt, immoral, arrogant liar ever to hold office. We have recently had a visitor to these forums that argued an opinion that would remove not only Constitutional authority, but resind the Declaration of Independance in a desire to shape society. Like the optical illusion of the three legged chair, with the fourth leg that appears to develope from nowhere, looking at that view point gives a feeling that something is amiss. I say this, not as a gunowner, but as a normal average citizen. Yes, my viewpoint has become slanted in the direction of RKBA. I have read and listened to both sides of the issue, and made a decision based on that. When I first came to TFL some 18 months ago, I would have to place my view somewhat on the soft side of the issue. I began to question many of the arguments in here for unrestricted RKBA, and many other topics. In that time, consistancy has always been the forte of this side of the issue. The arguments of the anti-self defence, and anti-freedom side have become so arrogant and self satisfied, they believe the public will open wide and swallow just about anything they care to dish out. One gun control site goes so far as to state, registration won't remove the guns from criminal hands, will cost an enormous amout to implement, and will have no effect-BUT THEY DEMAND IT ANYHOW{/b]. This to me is the height of unconcern, and shows the true intentions of those that seek to disarm. I have great faith in the American public to see through such clap. The things that made America great continue to live in most hearts. Scratch us all, and underneath you will find someone willing to do what is right. I firmly believe the other side has resorted to it's last scare tactic, and the American people, like the reported woman at the AARP meeting, featuring Al Gore, are ready to stand up and say "Quit trying to scare us!" I believe the time is ready. People are starting to see that greed and greed alone motivate our public officials. S&W struck a bargin in good faith. I agree, it was a bargin designed to sell out us gun owners, but the other siderefuses to stick to their end. Before the ink was dry on the paper, the announcements went out that the suits would continue. People have seen that the issue wan't about guns or crime, it was and is about a government out of control, and so used to lying to the people that it now knows no other way.

Sorry to be so long winded. Just my $.05 worth.

What I am saying is count me in. I believe that now the time is right, and we should strike while the iron is hot.

Rich
 
Guys, have you read the "What one woman really needs" post. Is that what you're looking for? I can't imagine a better example of call 911 and die!
 
I wasn't around for Round 1.

Count me in for Round 2. This is where we go for the knockout!

Here's a link to the info concerning the first FOUP (Firearm Owners Unification Project) http://www.thefiringline.com/unite

Here's an introductory thread on FOUP: http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/Forum23/HTML/000350.html

Search the Legal Forum Archive and type in FOUP and you'll find all the information you could want. Most of the threads are from March and April of 1999.

Y'know... Rob was the "Lead Man" on this project before. I wonder if he'd do it again?
If not, we should get some volunteers lined up.

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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

[This message has been edited by TheBluesMan (edited May 31, 2000).]
 
" NO MORE RESTRICTIONS " to me, connotes acceptance of all existing firearms restrictions. Hard to get em to swallow total repeal of all fed n state infringments tho.

Kinda like which to sleep with, Bush or Gore.

If it flys, I am in.



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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Having read the links, I still have a couple of questions. Is the text of the ad going to be as it was in 1999? When are the ads going to run? And where?

Just want to know what I'm going to be involved in while I'm involved :)

Dick
 
When? When we get the money. Where?
The original plan was a full page ad in USA Today. It was felt that would be the most bang for the buck (the most coverage).

That's at least 64,000 bucks, folks, if they haven't increased their rates.

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Byron Quick
 
WEll, its nice to know that FOUP didn't completely die. Unfortunately, the timing was apparently not right the first time around.

Jeff Thomas and Rich L also did a lot of work.. especially cleaning up while I was being severely distracted by relocation and a career change. When FOUP died I wasn't really happy, but I was too busy to do much about it.

Rich and Jeff both did a lot of work to set set up the original financial entity which took in (and returned) all the money. I still have all the info from USA Today, so that would be no big deal. Of course, we still have the statement itself.

The problem is that I wouldn't ask anyone to go through setting up the FOUP II entity until we had a lot more support expressed. When FOUP I started, it looked like we'd knock out 1200 signatures in a month or so, but after a couple weeks of great support, things died off very quickly.

I would suggest that, if there was significant interest, we started off without any money changing hands. Perhaps ask people to print out the statement, sign it and send it in as a statement of intent. When we got up over 700 or so signatures, we could go about collecting the money. The theory there would be that if we only got 600 or so people to actually pay, we could still place the statement somewhere that would carry impact. Mabye not USA Today.. and certainly not a full page.. but we could do something meaningful. If you read the original agreement form, you'll notice that we left ourselves an out, just in case we didn't get the full $60k.
This approach might cost us in time and a little front money to send out the requests for payment when we reached 700 or so supporters, but I think it would make the overall money handling situation less intimidating for the people trying to execute the project. This way, if FOUP II flops also, there wouldn't be a big headache at the end of returning money.

Like I said, it is nice to know that there is still interest, I really was very excited about FOUP and I believed that it would have really gotten some things stirred up. If we could pull it off in an election year, around Aug or Sept, it might really make a splash.

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-Essayons
 
Well I was disappointed as hell when my check came back. But, I'm ready to write another one! I'm in!

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TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
TFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th & 13th, 2000
 
Correction:
Rich L. lent some moral support. All the grunt work was shouldered by Jeff Thomas. I'm proud of the fact that all checks were returned when it didn't pan out.


But I wouldn't ask anyone to go thru what Jeff did....unless they "volunteer". ;)
If so, TFL's budget can stand to pay for 20 shares. But the accounting would have to be as strict and straight up as last time.
Rich
 
I'm in.

In the wonderful world of "If only . . .", I see that the member count is at 5700+. That's about a $10 apiece. The Reality Check is that there is about 1,000 active people.

I like the idea of filling out a statement of intent, as in pledge, and snail mailing it in. This takes just enough effort to weed out those people who do nothing more than rant on the Web.

Post an address and I'll pledge.

On the other hand, to snag these people, how about ---- on eBay there is an outfit that allows small sellers to accept Visa/MC ( www.paypal.com ). It's not just for auctions. They say it's free, but there has to be a fee for them somewhere. I'll warrant that if you took credit cards, you'd get so many extra pledges that it would offset any nominal charge they would make.

[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited June 02, 2000).]
 
I volunteer to perform at least half of the leg work, provided I can draw on Rob and Jeff Thomas' guidance and prior experience. I have never been a fiduciary. Perhaps whatever credibility I have built up over the past year in these forums may serve as a character reference of sorts.
 
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