Form 4473

P

Pipefighter

New member
Does a gun that qualifies as a C&R require filling out a 4473. If it does what is the advantage of it being a C&R. What are all the facts associated with a C&R. I'm looking at a wartime Hi Power that has German markings. I have never been interested in something like this before and I can't find much info on the BATF site.
 
Depends.

If a non licensee buys a C&R from a dealer, yes, there must be a 4473.

There is a type of FFL, 03 "Collector of Curios and Relics" if you hold this license, then you may or may not need a 4473 when buying from a dealer depending on local laws.

If you hold an 03 FFL, in most states you can buy any firearm that is a C&R from outside your state, and have it shipped directly to you. That is the advantage of a firearm being a C&R.
 
Thank you for your reply. I see now that none of this applies to me. But good information if I ever want to expand my horizons.
 
The problem is that some FFL dealers won't recognize an 03FFL because they are too lazy to call BATF to verify its authenticity, in which case they will make you fill out a 4473 even if the gun itself is a C&R.:mad:

A C&R is any gun 50 years old or older OR it can also be less than 50 years old, but must be on BATF's C&R list. (For example: Interarms Parabellums were made in the late 60's to ca. 1975 and are considered C&Rs even though they are not 50 years old, but are on BATF's C&R list.)

Specifically, if your Hi-Power has Nazi markings it is guaranteed to be over 50 years old, thus a C&R as defined by BATF.

The C&R license is $30.00 for three years and you must keep a bound book (like an 01FFL) showing acquisition and disposal of any C&R firearms. You MAY NOT be "engaged in the business." (In other words, you can't be buying crates of Mosin Nagants and selling them to your buddies.) Previously owned C&Rs need not be entered into your book until you dispose of them. If you give up your license, you need not turn your books in.

The C&R license is primarily for collectors to allow them to obtain collectible guns interstate and enhance their collections without having to go through an 01FFL dealer.

You can be audited, but it has to be done at the BATF office and rarely happens.

Certain machine guns, if over 50 years old, are also considered C&Rs, and can be delivered directly to your home without having to go through an NFA dealer, but, you still have to complete the fingerprints, photos, $200.00 tax, etc,
 
"some FFL dealers won't recognize an 03FFL because they are too lazy to call BATF to verify its authenticity,"

Maybe, but in some states, like MD, the dealer has no choice because the state doesn't recognize an 03 FFL. All sales by an 01 dealer/state licensed dealer to a non-dealer must go through the same process; the buyer's possession of an 03 FFL is irrelevant.

Jim
 
The local FFLs here just want the 4473, so my C&R FFL03 is good for buying C&R items from shows and collectors, or shipping from Gunbroker dealers who are more knowledgeable about the C&R.

It's well worth getting the C&R license, though, but don't be surprised when a dealer wants the 4473, or will ship to an FFL only. I don't like having to pay my FFL a transfer fee and sales tax, but I wanted the item so there you have it.
 
All the Pacific Coast states no longer recognize a C&R . I and hundreds of other C&R holders are now ex C&R holders because of this.
 
You can be audited, but it has to be done at the BATF office and rarely happens.
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Has this changed? My understanding has been that thay could, and most often had just asked you to bring your bound book to their office. But they also were allowed by regulation to examine the guns listed at your lication. But they had to make arrangements with you first. No surprise inspections.
 
gyvel .....You can be audited, but it has to be done at the BATF office ....
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Nope.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=70394195a3edf623eba7ce77a1bddff1&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&rgn=div5#se27.3.478_123
§478.23 Right of entry and examination.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), any ATF officer, when there is reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred and that evidence of the violation may be found on the premises of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, may, upon demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate and obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, enter during business hours (or, in the case of a licensed collector, the hours of operation) the premises, including places of storage, of any such licensee for the purpose of inspecting or examining:

(1) Any records or documents required to be kept by such licensee under this part and

(2) Any inventory of firearms or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer at such premises or any firearms curios or relics or ammunition kept or stored by any licensed collector at such premises.

(b) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during business hours the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, ammunition and firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) In the course of a reasonable inquiry during the course of a criminal investigation of a person or persons other than the licensee,

(2) For insuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part:

(i) Not more than once during any 12-month period, or

(ii) At any time with respect to records relating to a firearm involved in a criminal investigation that is traced to the licensee, or

(3) When such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation.

(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in closest proximity to the collectors premises.
(d) The inspections and examinations provided by this section do not authorize an ATF officer to seize any records or documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law. If an ATF officer seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided the licensee within a reasonable time.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10492, Mar. 31, 1988, as amended by T.D. ATF-363, 60 FR 17450, Apr. 6, 1995]
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