mike torre
Inactive
Anybody ever repair a fore end
on an A-5 clone ?
Mike
on an A-5 clone ?
Mike
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Fore end Repairs
- Thread starter mike torre
- Start date
Yes. They break from time to time. Usally a split up at the front.
Dont use your average epoxy; hobbyshop epoxy is usually cheap and weak. You want to use Westsystems or Tap Superhard resin. I would use unidirectional carbon fabric (you can get it from ACP Composites) or S-glass, and use at least a couple of layers of 8-ounce. If you use unidirectional, make sure to run the drection of the cloth across the long axis of the forend, un a "U" shape up front.
Dont use kevlar. It gives toughness, but youre going for stiffness here.
Repair it in two passes. The first pass will be to glue the cracks, and the second one to do the reinforcing.
You want to be aware of the addtional thickness that the cloth will add to the interior of the forend, as theres a lot going on under an A-5 forend.
You would be smart to cover the exterior of the forend in blue masking tape to reduce the number of epoxy finger prints on the exterior.
Dont use your average epoxy; hobbyshop epoxy is usually cheap and weak. You want to use Westsystems or Tap Superhard resin. I would use unidirectional carbon fabric (you can get it from ACP Composites) or S-glass, and use at least a couple of layers of 8-ounce. If you use unidirectional, make sure to run the drection of the cloth across the long axis of the forend, un a "U" shape up front.
Dont use kevlar. It gives toughness, but youre going for stiffness here.
Repair it in two passes. The first pass will be to glue the cracks, and the second one to do the reinforcing.
You want to be aware of the addtional thickness that the cloth will add to the interior of the forend, as theres a lot going on under an A-5 forend.
You would be smart to cover the exterior of the forend in blue masking tape to reduce the number of epoxy finger prints on the exterior.
mike torre
Inactive
It sounds like I got a "lucky break" in that the
crack runs from the magazine cap detent ball,
longitudinally on the surface the barrel runs on.
Does shooting slugs or bucksot do this, or is it an
age of the gun thing ?
Thanks,
Mike T
crack runs from the magazine cap detent ball,
longitudinally on the surface the barrel runs on.
Does shooting slugs or bucksot do this, or is it an
age of the gun thing ?
Thanks,
Mike T
If youve never done this, try it: Clear your A-5. Make sure its empty. You'll want some snap-caps or dummy rounds. Load two or three dummys/snap caps into the magazine.
Put the butt on a pad on the floor. Make sure your head is clear of the muzzle, grasp the barrel with both hands, and briskly push down about 6". Note how much stuff is acually reciprocating. The whole barrel and bolt move all the way back together (thats "long recoil" vs short recoil on a 1911 pistol), then the barrel goes foreward, ejecting the empties, and the bolt comes foreward, feeding a new round. You really have to think about how revolutionary this gun was for the era it was invented in. John Browning was an amazing guy.
All that pounding will split the thin part of the forend pretty easy. I've seen many split forends on them, but theyre usually pretty easy to repair. I gotta start looking for a deal on an A-5. Put that on my to do list..
Put the butt on a pad on the floor. Make sure your head is clear of the muzzle, grasp the barrel with both hands, and briskly push down about 6". Note how much stuff is acually reciprocating. The whole barrel and bolt move all the way back together (thats "long recoil" vs short recoil on a 1911 pistol), then the barrel goes foreward, ejecting the empties, and the bolt comes foreward, feeding a new round. You really have to think about how revolutionary this gun was for the era it was invented in. John Browning was an amazing guy.
All that pounding will split the thin part of the forend pretty easy. I've seen many split forends on them, but theyre usually pretty easy to repair. I gotta start looking for a deal on an A-5. Put that on my to do list..
Jeff Mulliken
New member
The most common crack on an A5 forend is at the thin end where it butts up against the receiver. It happens when there is play and as the barrel cycles back and forth it drags the wood with it slamming it into the reciever under recoil and again when it rebounds from the barrel returning to battery. Keeping the Mag cap snug but not cranked down too hard is the best way to prevent this cracking.
A very thin repair is essential as there is very little space between the barrel ring and the wood. If the ring or the recoil spring rub it can keep the gun from cycling with all but the hottest loads. I use Accraglass and a very thin fiberglass cloth for this repair. Squeegy all the resin out (after laying the glass) with a wood dowel, to keep the repair THIN.
A crack at the front of the forend is less common but seem from time to time. This repair can generally only be addressed from the outside, blowing epoxy into the crack with compressed air, or using hypodermic can work.
Go to picture # 114,
http://www.4girards.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=13351&g2_page=1
This 1906 forend was split from end to end and was held together with copper straps, screws and rivets when I got it.
Jeff
A very thin repair is essential as there is very little space between the barrel ring and the wood. If the ring or the recoil spring rub it can keep the gun from cycling with all but the hottest loads. I use Accraglass and a very thin fiberglass cloth for this repair. Squeegy all the resin out (after laying the glass) with a wood dowel, to keep the repair THIN.
A crack at the front of the forend is less common but seem from time to time. This repair can generally only be addressed from the outside, blowing epoxy into the crack with compressed air, or using hypodermic can work.
Go to picture # 114,
http://www.4girards.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=13351&g2_page=1
This 1906 forend was split from end to end and was held together with copper straps, screws and rivets when I got it.
Jeff
mike torre
Inactive
Wow , Nice job saving that
fore end. I am going to act now so i don't have
such a major job.
A friend is pushing something called "Hot Stuff" from
Brownells. Seems it is a super glue for wood. (cyanoacrylate)
any opinions on this hi tech glue ?
mike
fore end. I am going to act now so i don't have
such a major job.
A friend is pushing something called "Hot Stuff" from
Brownells. Seems it is a super glue for wood. (cyanoacrylate)
any opinions on this hi tech glue ?
mike
CA is brittle. It'll work well for things like a model airplane, where the shock loads arent too high, and if they are something always breaks..the "slope" in my screen name is the type of R/C soaring I do, slope-soaring. Google "dynamic-soaring" sometime. R/C sailplanes going 300 mph...
Epoxy has a 'give' to it. West systems epoxy is great stuff. If youre on the west coast, Tap Plastics super-hard 4-into1 epoxy is great and cheap, if any good epoxy can be described that way anymore...
Yes, squeege out the excess resin. Theres a school of thought among the guys in my hobby that make fiberglass fuselages that a dry-as-possible layup is also the stongest, since the resin is where the crack will start anyway, not the cloth. You can do things to minimize the thickness of the layup by finding a shape (pvc pipe, shampoo bottle,etc) that will fit the area youre repairing, wind a turn of polypropelene drop-cloth around it (since epoxy doesnt stick to it) and clamp it into the area. And when all else fails, get in there withsome 60 grit paper after the fact and clean it up.
Epoxy has a 'give' to it. West systems epoxy is great stuff. If youre on the west coast, Tap Plastics super-hard 4-into1 epoxy is great and cheap, if any good epoxy can be described that way anymore...
Yes, squeege out the excess resin. Theres a school of thought among the guys in my hobby that make fiberglass fuselages that a dry-as-possible layup is also the stongest, since the resin is where the crack will start anyway, not the cloth. You can do things to minimize the thickness of the layup by finding a shape (pvc pipe, shampoo bottle,etc) that will fit the area youre repairing, wind a turn of polypropelene drop-cloth around it (since epoxy doesnt stick to it) and clamp it into the area. And when all else fails, get in there withsome 60 grit paper after the fact and clean it up.
Jeff Mulliken
New member
Cyano acrylic adhesives set up too quickly in my opinion to use in a job where you need to add fabric or set up clamps etc.
Other epoxies may work just fine but I've stuck with Accraglas as it is wee embraced by the gunsmiths I know and comes with dyes that can be used to color match the resin to the tone of the wood your working on. That's important because none of these products will accept wood stain and the last thing you want is a repair that stcks out like a bad tatoo.
In addition you can fill a gap or build up an area with it if you need to and I've never seen cyano acrylic used successfully for that.
Jeff
Other epoxies may work just fine but I've stuck with Accraglas as it is wee embraced by the gunsmiths I know and comes with dyes that can be used to color match the resin to the tone of the wood your working on. That's important because none of these products will accept wood stain and the last thing you want is a repair that stcks out like a bad tatoo.
In addition you can fill a gap or build up an area with it if you need to and I've never seen cyano acrylic used successfully for that.
Jeff
Jeff Mulliken
New member
The straight grip was the standard configuration when these guns were introduced. On A5's the pistol grip was an option from the beginning.
I dont know what year they oficially made the change but by 1923 the standard stock on the FN made A5's was a round knob pistol grip. The straight stock remained an "option" in the following years.
The two straight stocked guns are a 1906 Grade 1 12 ga and a 1923 Grade 1 16 ga. Note that checkering was not standard on a grade 1 in 1906 but was standard in 1923. The pistol grip with french walnut is a 1928 gun, with one of the first factory vent rib barrels.
They are a hoot.
Jeff
I dont know what year they oficially made the change but by 1923 the standard stock on the FN made A5's was a round knob pistol grip. The straight stock remained an "option" in the following years.
The two straight stocked guns are a 1906 Grade 1 12 ga and a 1923 Grade 1 16 ga. Note that checkering was not standard on a grade 1 in 1906 but was standard in 1923. The pistol grip with french walnut is a 1928 gun, with one of the first factory vent rib barrels.
They are a hoot.
Jeff
mike torre
Inactive
Speaking of tough epoxies, what is your
opinion of our old standard "JB Weld" ?
I only mention that 'cause of past experience.
mike
opinion of our old standard "JB Weld" ?
I only mention that 'cause of past experience.
mike
Jeff Mulliken
New member
I've never used JB Weld.
Jeff
Jeff
Jeff Mulliken
New member
I'm not so well up on the Mod 11's but I have the details on the A5's.
The top gun is a 1923 16 ga. Auto-5
The bottom gun is a 1906 12 ga. Auto-5
In the upper corner of the frame there is a button to click to get a full sized view of the picture, it allows you to get a close detailed view.
In A5's there were several versions of the safety, the first was a switch in the middle of the trigger guard, the first Model 11's had the same safety.
The second was a sliding switch in the front of the trigger guard, the bottom gun (1906) has the second version.
The third version was similar to the 2nd but with the addition of a latch to release it when moving the gun to safe, the top gun (1923) has the third version.
The fourth version was a cross block safety, which Browning introduced in late 1951
Jeff
The top gun is a 1923 16 ga. Auto-5
The bottom gun is a 1906 12 ga. Auto-5
In the upper corner of the frame there is a button to click to get a full sized view of the picture, it allows you to get a close detailed view.
In A5's there were several versions of the safety, the first was a switch in the middle of the trigger guard, the first Model 11's had the same safety.
The second was a sliding switch in the front of the trigger guard, the bottom gun (1906) has the second version.
The third version was similar to the 2nd but with the addition of a latch to release it when moving the gun to safe, the top gun (1923) has the third version.
The fourth version was a cross block safety, which Browning introduced in late 1951
Jeff