For Those Of You Who Have Forgotten...

G

Good Guy

New member
I see some here on TFL's Handguns and Pistolcraft are weakening regarding purchasing S&W's post sellout products, while others just don't care and support S&W regardless of what the company does.

For Those Of You Who Have Forgotten...

AGREEMENT BETWEEN SMITH & WESSON AND
THE DEPARTMENTS OF THE TREASURY AND HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT,
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND STATES
SUMMARY OF TERMS

Preamble: The city, state, county and federal parties agree to dismiss the parties from the pending suits and refrain from filing suits against the manufacturer parties based on an equivalent cause of action.

SAFETY AND DESIGN
All handguns must meet the following safety and design standards:
· Second "hidden" serial number, to prevent criminals from obliterating serial numbers.
· External locking device sold with all guns within 60 days.
· Internal locking device on all guns within 24 months.
· Smart Guns -- Authorized User Technology.
o Manufacturers commit 2% of annual firearms revenues to the development of authorized user technology.
o Within 36 months, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models, with the exception of curios and collectors’ firearms.
o If top eight manufacturers agree, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearms.
· Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so they cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
· Performance test. All firearms will be subject to a performance test to ensure safety and quality.
· Drop test. All firearms will be subject to a test to ensure they do not fire when dropped.
All pistols must meet the following additional requirements:
· Safety device. Positive manually operated safety device.
· Magazine disconnectors must be available on all pistols to customers who desire the feature, within 12 months.
· Chamber load indicators on all pistols, showing whether the pistol is loaded, within 12 months.
· Large capacity magazines. New firearm designs will not be able to accept large-capacity magazines that were manufactured prior to September 1994. (Manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since that date.)
Law enforcement and military exception. If law enforcement agencies or the military certify the need, exceptions to these requirements may be made. Manufacturers will ask that these guns not be resold to the civilian market.
Warnings about safe storage and handling included with all firearms within six months.
Illegal firearms. Manufacturers will not sell firearms that can readily be converted into fully automatic weapons or that are resistant to fingerprints.

SALES AND DISTRIBUTION
Code of Conduct. The manufacturers will sell only to authorized dealers and distributors and allow their authorized distributors to sell only to authorized dealers. Authorized dealers and distributors will agree to a code of conduct. If manufacturers receive notice of a violation by an authorized dealer or distributor, they will take action against the dealer or distributor, including termination of sales to the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
The code of conduct will require authorized dealers and distributors to:
· Gun shows: make no gun show sales unless all sales at the gun show are completed only after a background check.
· Brady checks: wait as long as necessary for a completed Brady check showing that the purchaser is not a felon or otherwise prohibited before selling a gun to the purchaser.
· Safety training for purchasers: transfer firearms only to individuals who have passed certified safety course or exam and demonstrate to purchasers how to use all safety devices and how to load, unload, and safely store the firearm before completing the sale.
· Multiple handgun sales: all purchasers of multiple handguns to take only one handgun from the store on the day of sale, at which point a multiple sales report will be filed with ATF. The remainder of the guns can only be collected after 14 days.
· Employee training: require all employees to attend ATF-approved training and to pass a exam on firearms laws, straw purchasers, illegal trafficking indicators, and gun safety.
· Insurance: carry liability insurance where available, with a minimum coverage of $1 million for each incident.
· Inventory control: maintain an electronic inventory tracking plan within 24 months
· Security: implement a security plan for securing firearms.
· Child access: require persons under 18 to be accompanied by adults in gun stores or gun sections of stores.
· Weapons attractive to criminals: not sell large capacity magazines or semiautomatic assault weapons.
· Compliance: provide law enforcement, government regulators, and the Oversight Commission established in this Agreement with access to documents necessary to determine compliance; cooperate fully in the Agreement’s Oversight mechanism.
· Crime gun traces: maintain an electronic record of all ATF trace requests and report trace requests to manufacturers.
· Indicted dealers: forgo firearms sales to licensed dealers known to be under indictment.
· Straw purchasers: not to make sales to straw purchasers.
Manufacturer commitments. Manufacturers will:
· Provide quarterly sales data to ATF.
· Not market guns in any manner designed to appeal to juveniles or criminals.
· Refrain from selling any modified/sporterized semi-automatic pistol of type that cannot be imported into U.S.
· Reaffirm policy of not placing advertisements in vicinity of schools, high crime zones, and public housing.
· Implement a security plan for securing firearms.
· Designate an officer to ensure compliance with the Agreement.

Corporate responsibility for crime gun traces. If an authorized dealer or distributor has a disproportionate number of crime guns traced to it within three years of sale, the manufacturers will take action, including possible termination or suspension, against the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
Oversight Commission will be established and empowered to oversee implementation of the Agreement. The Commission will have five members selected as follows: one by manufacturers; two by city and county parties; one by state parties; one by ATF. The Commission’s powers will include the authority to review compliance with the design and safety requirements, review the safety and training program for dealer and distributor employees, review manufacturer actions against dealers or distributors that violate the Agreement or have a disproportionate number of crime gun traces, and require suspension or termination if warranted.
Role of ATF. To the extent consistent with law, ATF will work with manufacturers and the Oversight Commission to assist them in meeting obligations under the Agreement. ATF will notify the Oversight Commission of certain violations of the Agreement by distributors and dealers if it uncovers such violations.
Ballistics Imaging. Within six months, if technologically available, manufacturers will fire all firearms before sale and will enter the digital image of the casings in a system compatible with the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network and accessible to ATF. This will enable law enforcement to trace crime guns when only the bullets or casings are recovered.
Access 2000. Manufacturers shall participate in ATF’s Access 2000 program, which establishes electronic links with ATF and enables high-speed tracing of crime guns.
Legislation. The parties will work together to support legislative efforts to reduce firearm misuse and the development of authorized user technology.
Education trust fund. Upon resolution of all current city, state, and county lawsuits, manufacturers will dedicate 1% of overall firearms revenues to an education trust fund.
Most favored entity. If other manufacturers enter agreements with more expansive design and distribution reforms, and those manufacturers, along with the manufacturer parties to this Agreement, account for fifty percent or more of United States handgun sales, the manufacturer parties to this Agreement will agree to abide by the same reforms.

Enforcement. The Agreement will be entered into and enforceable as a court order and as a contract.

YES, S&W MUST DIE!



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Just one of the Good Guys
 
All the gun shops in my area quit carrying S&W except for one. As for the shop that held on to them... S&W is now their top seller (by a large margin). Since we gun owners don't seem to be any more able to stand up to tyrany than S&W, look for Glock, Beretta, etc. to join the agreement soon :(.
 
I didn't forget ;) I will only buy used.
Maybe after elections things will change :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
JJR, now be sure and keep an eye on the shop that sells S&W. If they are not in compliance with ALL facets of the agreement it is your duty as a good citizen of the U.S. to report any illegal activity to the proper authorities which in this case would be BATF, HUD, S&W, and HCI. Guns locked up at night? No full cap mags in the store? No 'assault weapons' in the store? The staff trained? All sellers gone through triaining? Do your civic duty.
 
JJR, argeed, that is precisley the problem. I we (gun owners/putchasers) do not support the boycott the other manufactures will be forced to enter into the same agreement. There should be no need other than the surivial of the second amendment to support the boycott. But for those that cannot except the boycott because they feel it is undermining a great American firearms manufacture view it as assisting the other manufactures in helping them in their support of the second by not signing the agreement. Remember the same agreement was offered to them all. Smith is only one that sold us out to the Clinton administration.
For those that cannot support the boycott for either of those reasons I ask that you read the agreement again and then ask yourself if you would like to see these "rules" implemented by all manufactures, ditributors and dealers. If so go buy some Gore 2000 buttons and start campaigning. You may as well you are already using your dollars to support those that would steal our rights without having to use embarrassing and controversial legislation.

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
As much as I want a S&W M19 .357, I will only buy pre-sellout, nothing new. It pains me to do it, but "you've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything." Buy NOT supporting the S&W sellout, we ARE supporting the other manufacturers who did not sign. All of the other manufacturers outweigh S&W by quite a large margin.
 
Even more seem to have forgotten, or forgiven, this traitor-

WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?

[Excerpted from http://survival.simplenet.com/rants.html#WHY IS BILL RUGER (RUGER GUNS) A TRAITOR?]

{A question: why do you say Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people?}

Bill Ruger is THE PERSON who dreamed up the "10 round mag" idea. He was filmed with Tom Brokaw as Bill said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round mags or my folding stock" and "I see nothing wrong with waiting periods".

The next day after I saw that interview, I canceled a $20,000 order for Ruger products and have not bought ONE of his guns since!

This interview was used (with Bill Rugers permission) over and over again to rub our faces in the fact that "even a gun manufacture thinks gun control is good".

Following is an excerpt from the March 30, 1989 letter Bill Ruger sent to every member of Congress:

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines.
By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item.
A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."
This letter was taken from the American Handgunner mag, dated Sept 1992 (pg. 18)
This self-serving degenerate was only kissing-ass to the Democrats to save his own butt, his government contracts and the Ruger Mini 14. He is a traitor in all sense of the word.

If you check EVERY gun ban, the Ruger Mini-14 is either not named, or specifically name as exempt.

Hence, Bill Ruger is a traitor to the American people.

{To be a traitor, a person must change sides of a view. Has Bill shared your views in the past?}

Bill Ruger said (on national tv) "I see nothing wrong with a 15, or even a 30 day wait to buy a gun". He also said "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."

He than wrote a letter to EVERY member of congres, promoting the "10 round maximum" on mags.

Everything I say can be, and has been, verified. So you see, Bill Ruger, to save his own pocket-book, committed treason, not only on EVERY American, but every man, woman and child on this planet.

Note: Infomation and links courtsey Robert Firriolo.

The following is from an article which appeared in the December 1, 1989 issue of Gun Week.

Stephen Sanetti is Ruger's general counsel and frequent spokesperson.

[The following is from Neal Knox]

"Steve Sanetti says 'I know better' than to ascribe Bill Ruger's magazine ban proposal to business considerations. Maybe so; I don't think Bill is by any means 'anti-gun,' nor do I think he really _wants_ a ban on either guns or magazines (after all, he got his start as a machine gun designer). But I do think Bill Ruger is pushing a plan that would protect his business while affecting only his competitors, and I think he's damaging the efforts of those of us attempting to stop all proposed bans. Further, I don't think his actions on this issue, and other issues in the past, allows him to be described as 'the strongest supporter of our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.'

"What I _know_ is that about 9 p.m. the night before Bill sent a letter to certain members of Congress calling for a ban on high-capacity magazines he called me, wanting me to push such a ban. His opening words, after citing the many federal, state and local bills to ban detachable magazine semi-autos, were 'I want to save our little gun' -- which he later defined as the Mini-14 and the Mini-30. I'm not ascribing Bill's motives as 'expedient from a business standpoint;' Bill did.

"While I agree that a ban on over-15 magazines would be 'indefinitely preferable' to a ban on the guns that use them, that's not the question. Neither I, nor the other gun groups have ever believed that we were faced with such an either/or choice. Early last year the NRA legislative Policy committee discussed various alternatives to the proposed 'assault weapons' ban, and wisely decided that magazine restrictions wouldn't satisfy our foes, but would make it more difficult to stop a gun ban.

"I was particularly shocked when I realized Bill was talking about a ban on possession of over-15-round magazines, rather than a ban on sales (which is bad enough). I told him that such a law would make me a felon, for not only did I have standard over-15 magazines for my Glock pistol (a high-capacity which has sharply cut into Ruger's police business), I have many high-cap mags for guns I don't even own, and don't even know where they all are. As I told Bill, after a lifetime of accumulating miscellaneous gun parts and accessories, there's no way I could clean out all my old parts drawers and boxes, then swear -- subject to a five or ten-year Federal prison term -- that I absolutely didn't have an M3 grease gun mag or 30-round M-2 magazine lying in some forgotten drawer.

""Bill said (and all these direct quotes are approximate). 'No, there'd be amnesty for people like you. We have to propose a ban on possession before they could take us seriously.' He contended that the public's problem was with 'firepower,' which could be resolved by eliminating high capacity mags.

"I told him Metzenbaum and Co. would gladly use whatever he offered, but they weren't about to willingly agree to eliminate high-cap magazines as a substitute for banning guns; that their intention isn't to eliminate 'firepower' but 'firearms.'

"Bill finally said, 'Neal, you're being very negative about it.' He got angry, then said 'Well somebody's got to do it; by God I will.' And the next day he sent his letter to the Hill; the evidence indicates a few weeks later he talked SAAMI into supporting undefined 'regulation' of magazines over-15-rounds -- a vote that might have gone a little differently if any produced high-capacity magazines as standard for either rifles or pistols.

"I suspect that Ruger and SAAMI's actions are responsible, directly or indirectly, for the Bush administration's proposal to ban high-cap mags, but that proposal has been ignored -- except as evidence that 'the Bush administration and the American firearms industry recognize there's a problem -- that Americans shouldn't be allowed to have such guns.'

"Of course, that isn't what Bill Ruger and SAAMI are saying, but that's the message they're sending. Perhaps it isn't business expediency to propose banning only that which they don't make, in an effort to protect what they do make; but it sure can't be claimed to be in defense of the Second Amendment."
 
Unfortunately, here in the " Peoples Republic of Mass." we are restricted to not much but S&W, or used. Used was always a better deal, anyway. Did you know S&W was closed this summer for 6-8 weeks for lack of orders, I've heard? I was out there at a summer basketball league with my son and at least I can vouch for that particular week, they were closed up tight, except for the security guards. Ray
 
Good post, BB. I'm just curious how many S&W boycotters out, who are screaming "Smith & Wesson must die", are also screaming "Ruger [not Bill but his company] must die"?
 
I want to add a snub that is chambered for .32 H&R mag. I would have purchased a S&W model 331. Not now. I don't appreciate being sold down the river. I'll wait for Taurus to start shipping the model 731. Even if I have to do without a .32 H&R mag, I won't consider a Smith & Wesson. And I used to consider S&W the best revolver, bar none. To hell with them.

Will

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Mendacity is the system we live in.
 
there is no reason to buy new, there are plenty of used ones around, and the older ones are often of better quality,(pinned and recessed).
go to Gunsamerica and sign up for daily updates, I see about 10-15 guns daily from them.
 
As the one who helped start this whole thing (albeit in jest), may I say that I will relish the day when the agreement is declared unconstitutional and thrown out, the *&* management who agreed to it (not just Schultz) are tarred and feathered and when Bill Ruger is branded as an elitist traitor on the cover of American Rifleman. He is a traitor to not only the letter of the Constitution, but also the spirit. He has facilitated the rape of our nation and our rights, and rather than being given awards and praise, should be treated like the dog he is.

[This message has been edited by buzz_knox (edited October 12, 2000).]
 
I have not forgot. Also remember that S&W signed on to the hi cap mag ban.

No new Rugers or Smiths for me in a long time.

Sam.....just tween knaps
 
Buzz, I'd like to see that, too, but Bill Ruger's million-dollar bribe to the NRA will prevent them from identifying him as the traitor that he is.

Gotta admit, though, that I've bought a couple of Ruger single actions since he sold us out, and in fairness to S&W (not that the treacherous cowards deserve any fairness) I should probably not giver Ruger any more of my business either.
 
Never forget, never look back, NEVER surrender!

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Ruger must go!

Thanks for posting that outline of the Ruger betrayal. My mind is filled with explatives for Ruger right about now.

I already knew what he did, and boycotted him, but I did not know the details.

I am trying to decide who screwed us more....S&W's treasonous measures were very widespread, but Ruger's betrayal REALLY hurts. I HATE CASTRATED MAGAZINES!*** But, under S&W's treasonous agreement, shops won't even be able to sell used full capacity mags or any guns that hold them. Who is worse? They both suck!!!!


***(THINK OF HOW MANY GUNS I COULD HAVE BOUGHT FOR ALL THE MONEY I HAVE SPENT IN FULL CAP MAGS. That is the secret plan: get us all to spend our gun money on mags instead of buying more guns.)

[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited October 13, 2000).]
 
I just picked up a 331. BUT, I purchased it from an individual, so it is used. I specifically passed up on a 332 which was my first preference because I did not want to buy a post-agreement gun new from a dealer.
 
The biggest difference I see bewtween the two (Ruger & Smith) is the fact that what Ruger did was in response to pending legislation. It may or may not have stopped an out right ban. We will never know.
What Smith did circumvented any legislation and handed them (the ant's/Clinton administration) what they wished without having to fight to get new laws passed.

That in no way relieves Ruger of his wrong doing.
 
I've said this before, and I will say it again. The reason Smith can be boycotted effectively and Ruger cannot is because of the power of the internet. If we had had things like TFL when Ruger jumped on the mag bandwagon they would have been toasted. Smith tries something dumb a few years latter and we all know about it within days, folks get angry and boycott.

Can we form a boycott of Ruger now? I don't think so. The time for that opportunity is past.

Also I've noticed, all of the shops in my state that still carry Smith just ignore the agreement.
 
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