For College Students ... it's "open holster" week!

Garand Illusion

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Open Holster Week

If you wanted a motivation to take part in this, read the gunguys.com drivel on it:

gunguys.com idiocy

Does anyone beyond the brainwashed gun advocates of the world take this idea seriously?

For students and teachers over 21 who have taken the time to get trained and checked to carry a firearm? Hell yes.

Very few students would pursue this, as if you're following the college "boozing and having fun life" like I did in college, carrying a gun is just too much responsibility. I wouldn't have done it at that age unless I felt there was a threat so serious I had to give up the rest of my college experience to stay safe.

But there are older students ... professors ... who would. We don't need or want every student armed. But even one out of 30 would make campus's a lot safer from the mass murderers of the world.
 
Living in Illinois I haven't had a need for a holster but I may just pick one up for this. :) I'll poke around Gear and Accessories for tips.
 
Crap. I wish I had heard about this this weekend; I don't have a holster down here, since I'm apparently not to be trusted with a handgun, despite being a 27-year-old combat veteran.

EDIT: And I'd go buy one, but I really don't need another and I'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment.
 
Won't it be a great day when college students can legally defend themselves against psycho school shooters on their own college campuses?


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304806,00.html


Naturally, the anti-gun Brady campaign would rather have innocent students murdered so they can run before news cameras to push for more gun legislation, despite the fact that no gun law has prevented a school shooting yet.
 
MTS, first of all, nobody, even the most ignorant evil bastard on the anti gun side wants college kids to die, to suggest so is wrong. Secondly, it's not really fair to say that gun control hasn't prevented any school shootings yet since you can not logically prove a negative like that. Current regulations might have prevented countless thousands of school shootings, but how would we know that?

Only a small percentage of college students are over 21, an even smaller percentage of those students desire to be armed. Quite frankly it's a non issue that people blow out of proportion trying to make emotional pleas to one side or the other.

The fact is gun ownership does not increase nor decrease crime, as proven by countless studies. Due to this rather inconveinient fact neither side can use crime as a reason to allow or disallow firearms ownership.
 
Only a small percentage of college students are over 21, an even smaller percentage of those students desire to be armed. Quite frankly it's a non issue that people blow out of proportion trying to make emotional pleas to one side or the other.

Mostly true. But ... there were people over 21 killed, and there were other people over 21 there. Perhaps one of them would have chosen to be armed that day. If so, he would have had an opportunity to defend himself. Given the hundreds of people in the building, there's a chance at least one would be armed.

Would that person have saved himself or anyone else? No way to prove it either way. But CCW is about self defense and empowering people to fight back. Fighting CCW is about making sure that people are defenseless and that no one has the tools to fight back.

If my girl is at school and someone begins murdering at random, I would prefer there be someone there that can fight back and maybe disrupt the attack rather than them all just being disarmed so they can be shot like helpless fish in a barrel. If you prefer the latter scenario for your children or mine, bradycampaign.org would be happy to take your contribution.

The brady campaign asks for $1 per victim. Is it any wonder they make sure that all potential victims remain disarmed?

The fact is gun ownership does not increase nor decrease crime, as proven by countless studies. Due to this rather inconveinient fact neither side can use crime as a reason to allow or disallow firearms ownership.

It doesn't. But it does empower people, and that is a fact.

The problem with it affecting the crime rate is that the crime still happens; it just affects the victims opportunities to defend himself.

i.e. in a non CCW state, like NY, a man attacks me with a steel pipe. He beats me half to death, leaving me braindamaged and unable to care for myself for life. He is charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

The same crazy man attacks me in Colorado. Except after being knocked down I manage to draw my firearm and either force him to stop or wound him before being permanently damaged. The man is charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Except in this scenario, I'm able to defend myself and end the assasult hurt but not maimed or killed.

Or perhaps a mugger approaches me, I flash the weapon, and he flees. Since he still needs his drug money, he then attacks an unarmed person and takes their money. When he's arrested, both the other victim and myself file charges. So now he faces two charges of assault, and the crime rate is actually worse because I was able to defend myself.

The bottom line ... CCW is empowering. It's a good thing, and there are no negatives to it.

it's not really fair to say that gun control hasn't prevented any school shootings yet since you can not logically prove a negative like that. Current regulations might have prevented countless thousands of school shootings, but how would we know that?

True again. But since existing laws didn't stop Columbin, Virginia Tech, etc. ... perhaps we still need to keep considering other options besides just "more of the same."

And from the largest school massacre in History, which took place in Bath, MI in 1928, we know that such mass murders can tape place even without guns at all.
 
The brady campaign asks for $1 per victim. Is it any wonder they make sure that all potential victims remain disarmed?

Good lord...is it even possible anymore to disagree with somebody without trying to demonize and dehumanize them to the maximum extent possible? You are suggesting that the Brady Campaign actually wants people to die...you realize that, right?

Yes, they're idiots. Yes, they're wrong. But seriously. Seriously.
 
Good lord...is it even possible anymore to disagree with somebody without trying to demonize and dehumanize them to the maximum extent possible? You are suggesting that the Brady Campaign actually wants people to die...you realize that, right?

Yes, they're idiots. Yes, they're wrong. But seriously. Seriously.

It's possible ... but it's not much fun ;)

Seriously ... this is the level of the discourse in America today. The Brady campaign says the NRA sides with criminals and is trying to make our schools and businesses less safe, and we respond in kind.

And the FSA and gunguys.com is far worse, blaming every homicide in America on NRA members.

I think you can honestly say that the Brady Campaign/FSA hates guns to the point that they won't CONSIDER an option like arming teachers; it's more important to them to fight their main battle to stop guns in America and shut down the gun culture than any short term moves to defend schools.

So to that extent ... yes, they are willing to sacrifice children for their cause. Because otherwise they would look at every possible manner to save children, vs. the ones they find politically correct. Of course they believe they are fighting for the greater good of a "gun free" america, but seriously ... it's kids lives at stake. Pro gun or Anti, we need to look at EVERY option.

The NRA even supported enhancements to background checks, taking flack for supporting a "pro gun control" law. Will the Brady's respond in kind by at least intelligently joining in the discussion over armed teachers?

I think not.
 
MTS, first of all, nobody, even the most ignorant evil bastard on the anti gun side wants college kids to die, to suggest so is wrong.


I think you are giving the anti-gun crowd way too much credit. Every time there is a mass murder, anti-gun legislators demand new laws, which only affect law abiding gun owners, regardless of the stated intent of the law. What individual bent on mass murderer is going to be deterred by laws? Look at any mass killing you can find throughout history. No law ever stopped those killers. The cumulative efforts of anti-gun lawmakers only serve to create more victims for the next mass murderer. How many more graves need to be filled before law-abiding people are 'granted' the right to defend themselves on college campuses or in the workplace?

It seems to me that anti-gun legislators see themselves as superior to the rest of us. They believe they are the only ones qualified to determine public policy. They don't see the rest of us as individuals, but as ignorant masses who need them to guide us. To them, we have no right to own effective weapons, and they would take them away if they could, as some have said before. The stated goal of some anti-gun lobbying groups is not to to stop mass murders, but to pressure Congress to ban guns in the hands of civilians. Lawmakers who follow this scheme only help to create a defenseless population. It does nothing to reduce violent crime! It seems these legislators have never asked themselves how effective their laws would be to stop mass shootings. If they did, the obvious answer would be that their anti-gun efforts will have no effect at all on those determined to break them, yet they push for more laws after every shooting spree! So what are we to conclude? Simply that anti-gun legislators are not concerned with the defense of the individual, but to push forth their own agenda, regardless of the overall effect on violent crime.

Yet many of these same lawmakers employ body guards armed with weapons the rest of us cannot legally obtain. Some don't see this as hypocritical, because they see themselves as important. You and I are not.

I'm just a working guy. I cannot afford to hire a bodyguard. But I should have the same right to an effective self defense as anyone else, and that includes defending myself against an unprovoked attack everywhere I go. Our Bill of Rights should not stop at the doorstep of American colleges or workplaces.
 
MTS840, I have to agree with most of what you said there...but what you didn't say that time is what the person replying to you was responding to: that members of the Brady Campaign actually want people to be murdered.

They may not agree with you, they may not be able to see the logic you point out (and that I agree with, just so that's clear). But this does not mean that they actually want to see people die. Especially not so they can get their $1 per victim as Garand Illusion suggested.

So to that extent ... yes, they are willing to sacrifice children for their cause. Because otherwise they would look at every possible manner to save children, vs. the ones they find politically correct. Of course they believe they are fighting for the greater good of a "gun free" america, but seriously ... it's kids lives at stake. Pro gun or Anti, we need to look at EVERY option.

It's not about "politically correct." Some people honestly, as you pointed out, believe that America (including our schools) would be safer with more gun laws. They're not "sacrificing" our children; they're trying (through methods that you and I agree won't work, but nonetheless) to protect them.


Basically, both of you are attributing to malice what can much more easily (and, IMO, accurately) be attributed to stupidity.
 
I think I did respond to that. I cannot say I disagree with 'Garand Illusion.' Based on their legislation, I cannot trust the motives of those law-makers who side with the anti-gun lobbyists. If they were honest and really wanted to stop workplace killings, they would agree that everybody has a right to defend himself and allow that right on campuses and in workplaces.

Yet each time, these legislators create more laws which make it harder to defend ourselves in these places. They hold press conferences after such a tragedy to stack public opinion to push their legislation, which does little more than leave people defenseless in the face of a killer. Again, what would be the logical conclusion? They exploit every killing spree to push their agenda, which is to ban civilian ownership of effective weapons. To me, they are more interested in pushing an agenda, not stop mass killings on campuses.

Maybe it's a bit strong to say that the anti-gun crowd wants innocent people to die, but gun-grabbing law makers keep making legislation which causes it to happen. Draw your own conclusion.
 
It's not about "politically correct." Some people honestly, as you pointed out, believe that America (including our schools) would be safer with more gun laws. They're not "sacrificing" our children; they're trying (through methods that you and I agree won't work, but nonetheless) to protect them.

I actually don't disagree with that at all. I know anti-gun people, though most are "passively" anti-gun. Like most American's (including myself) they don't have time to research each and every issue, so for secondary things (for many people, gun ownership) they find a person or group they generally agree with the oulook of and follow them. For conservatives it's hannity, O'reilly, etc. For liberals it's moveon.org and Michael Moore and etc.

But for the leaders of the anti-gun groups, it's their job to think things through. And they refuse to consider any solution that might save lives if it involves private ownership/civilian carrying of weapons.

It's like I used to argue with CCW ... like it or not, guns are easily obtainable in America. Legal CCW just gives law abiding citizens the right to carry them for self defense. Criminals carry them irregardless. I still think you could be firmly anti-gun, believing guns are bad for America, but pro-CCW, because until guns are eliminated from America honest people should not be kept disarmed.

I would say the same with schools. Our children and the safety of our schools is so important we should look past no possibility to defend them, whether it meets our overall agenda or not. So even the anti-gun groups should consider arming teachers instead of poo pooing any concept of American's defending themselves and their children. In fact ... I could see it as a boon to them, quite honestly. The new brady campaign: "America ... so overwhelmed with guns and gun violence even teachers have to carry them. WHEN will we end the madness!"

I myself, a pro-gun ownership guy, am appalled at the thought that teachers might have to carry weapons to defend my children. But when I read the story of columbine and others, I am even more appalled that they don't. As parents, we have to make the hard decisions on our children's safety, even when it leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

When anti-gun groups refuse to look at every possible alternative because it doesn't further their agenda, they are putting their agenda above human life, and even above the lives of children.
 
I'm all for adults' carrying on campuses. However, sophomoric stunts like the one discussed in this thread harm more than help.
 
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