For civilians, is 25 yd. accuracy important?
- Thread starter J. Parker
- Start date
For point-shooting and rapid-fire I shoot at the 7 yard backstop. (If I can keep most or all of the shots in the K5 zone, I figure that's good). For my meager version of "bullseye" shooting, I use the 50 ft. backstop. At 25 yards my targets depress me.
When I read about some of the groups that some on this board shoot, I'm in awe.
Dick
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When I read about some of the groups that some on this board shoot, I'm in awe.
Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
I shoot @ 25 yards 99% of the time. Why? The two clubs I belong to don't have anything shorter. When I was at the EOSM this past weekend, the range we shot at had 7 yards and 15 yards targets. EVERYTHING seemed soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo close. I was in awe at the little cloverleaves.
Young Kiwi
New member
25 Yard accuracy is important to me in that it gives me confidence in my firearm.
There is a significant mental component to shooting well. Actual Mechanics aside, If you don't believe your firearm will group well at 25 yards, then it won't. Sub-consciously ensure that will not occur. The opposite is also true.
The view is that if you can't get it group well, then i) you need practice with it. or ii) the fit of the gun is not for you, try another gun.
I find this all the time. As an example, a friend and I both own glock 17's and 4" Revolvers We were shooting them at 50Metres (55Yards). With my S&W Model 65 4" I can shoot a 18cm (7") group, but with my Glock I can only manage 35cm (14") groups. My friend is the same but opposite. Big groups with the Revlover and smaller with the Glock.
Rightly or wrongly I feel a lot more confident of hitting something with my revolver than I do with my glock. When I shoot it I am invariably in the 'right' mindset.
There is a significant mental component to shooting well. Actual Mechanics aside, If you don't believe your firearm will group well at 25 yards, then it won't. Sub-consciously ensure that will not occur. The opposite is also true.
The view is that if you can't get it group well, then i) you need practice with it. or ii) the fit of the gun is not for you, try another gun.
I find this all the time. As an example, a friend and I both own glock 17's and 4" Revolvers We were shooting them at 50Metres (55Yards). With my S&W Model 65 4" I can shoot a 18cm (7") group, but with my Glock I can only manage 35cm (14") groups. My friend is the same but opposite. Big groups with the Revlover and smaller with the Glock.
Rightly or wrongly I feel a lot more confident of hitting something with my revolver than I do with my glock. When I shoot it I am invariably in the 'right' mindset.
Look at it this way...if you can shoot groups at 25 yds, you'll do way better groups at 7 yds.
I do a lot of shooting at 25 yds. Makes me concentrate on fundamentals--grip, concentration, trigger control.
And if you use a rest, you'll get a much better picture of what the pistol is capable of, vs. what the pistolero is capable of.
25yds may not be important for mouse guns, but for anything else, I think the shooter should know what the gun and the person can do at that difference.
Just for fun, take a look at the current thread on taking varmit with your pistol.
I do a lot of shooting at 25 yds. Makes me concentrate on fundamentals--grip, concentration, trigger control.
And if you use a rest, you'll get a much better picture of what the pistol is capable of, vs. what the pistolero is capable of.
25yds may not be important for mouse guns, but for anything else, I think the shooter should know what the gun and the person can do at that difference.
Just for fun, take a look at the current thread on taking varmit with your pistol.
Shooting at 25 and 50 meters refines your ability to coordinate sight picture and trigger pull, but it's worth building a basic skill level at the closer ranges first because shots on a 25 and 50 meter bull can be awfully discouraging sometimes--and not just to beginners. Still, in my limited opinion, consistent shooting at the shorter ranges permits a lot of bad habits to develop that don't show up when the goal is simply to place a round in the generous K-5 zone or center on an IPSC tgt at 5-15 meters. If you settle for a general ability to simply hit the kill zone of standard tgts at the closer range under no stress, I figger than when a real danger threat occurs, liklihood is that group size will quadruple at best.... That's why I also prefer an accurate belt gun to what's fobbed of as the norm by current industry standards. I'd like to know before I start that the errors to be eliminated are mine and not my weapon's.
I might add that the 25 yd is VERY important to work on.
At the start, on closer ranges, use a smaller target. You will gain confidence and not even realize that you are REALLY working on 25 yards at the same time.
The smaller the area you concentrate on, the better will be your groups at ANY range.
At the start, on closer ranges, use a smaller target. You will gain confidence and not even realize that you are REALLY working on 25 yards at the same time.
The smaller the area you concentrate on, the better will be your groups at ANY range.
Bottom Gun
New member
I agree with everyone. Practice at 25 yd OR MORE. We regularly practice at 25, 50, 75 yards and farther, depending upon what type of gun we're shooting. Do that for a while and you'll find yourself putting slugs through the same hole at close range.
I hunt with a handgun and I figure long range practice is most beneficial to me. I've found I'm more efficient point shooting at close and mid range too as a result. I'm lucky to live where a person can just choose a good backstop and shoot at just about any distance you'd care to.
The shooters I've observed who also practiced at longer ranges were usually better overall marksmen than the shooters who solely shot silhouettes at 7 yards.
I figure that I ever have to engage someone else carrying a handgun and I have any say at all in the matter, I'm going to try to put as much distance between us as I possibly can. I figure that gives me the advantage, especially if I'm carrying something like a model 686 or a 629.
I hunt with a handgun and I figure long range practice is most beneficial to me. I've found I'm more efficient point shooting at close and mid range too as a result. I'm lucky to live where a person can just choose a good backstop and shoot at just about any distance you'd care to.
The shooters I've observed who also practiced at longer ranges were usually better overall marksmen than the shooters who solely shot silhouettes at 7 yards.
I figure that I ever have to engage someone else carrying a handgun and I have any say at all in the matter, I'm going to try to put as much distance between us as I possibly can. I figure that gives me the advantage, especially if I'm carrying something like a model 686 or a 629.
You need to mix it up. Short range, plus 25yards, plus some 25yard "barricade" braced shooting in my opinion. If, through some VERY odd set of circumstances I needed to take a longer shot, I like knowing I could.
I've got one very weird little .22Mag "mousegun" that's ultra-concealable yet can do reliable barricade 25yard 5" groups - my NAA MiniMaster with a tuned trigger
. Soon as I score CCW, that little booger is gonna live on my ankle "permanently". It's more accurate than my snub .38.
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/jimguns.html
Jim
I've got one very weird little .22Mag "mousegun" that's ultra-concealable yet can do reliable barricade 25yard 5" groups - my NAA MiniMaster with a tuned trigger
. Soon as I score CCW, that little booger is gonna live on my ankle "permanently". It's more accurate than my snub .38.http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/jimguns.html
Jim
I shoot at 25 yards most of the time, sometimes at 15 and 10 yards. The whole point is that it's useful to develop ability to hit relatively tiny targets, and hitting clay pigeon at 25 yards and shotgun shell at 10 yards will help a lot to develop marksmanship in general and instictive shooting skills in particular. I also shoot .22 Ruger MKII at 50 yards, to "get a right feel".
Thanks everyone. For years I shot at paper 25 yards away. I had to. I lived in a state where civilians shot at 25 yards and "LE only" got to shoot at 7 yards. Now I live in a state where I can blast away at whatever distance I please. I dunno, it's just fun to shoot at silhouette's at a relatively short distance. I believe, certainly more realistic. Thanks, J. Parker
Most of the handgun shooting my wife and I do is at 25 yards. An exception was made last weekend and she shot at the 15 yard range ONLY because her revolver was the Taurus 617 that she had loaded up with .357 rounds. The 617 only has a 2" barrel, making the 25 yard distance unreasonable, IMO.
To me, the longer range is similar to the proverbial 'lead bat.' Once you get used to shooting at the longer range, anything closer is that much easier.
Cliff
To me, the longer range is similar to the proverbial 'lead bat.' Once you get used to shooting at the longer range, anything closer is that much easier.
Cliff
As someone who has been shooting handguns for 50-plus years, I think it's amusing to observe shooting fads. These run in cycles.
When I first came up in shooting, the long-range use of the cavalry pistol in the Civil War era was a distant memory. Pistol shooting was a close-in defensive activity for the military or police, or, rarely, the civilian defense shooter; the handgun viewed as the equivalent to a battle-axe, useful only at very close ranges.
In the 50's and 60's, the writings of Keith and Skelton and others woke us up to the potential of the big sixgun in hunting, to sometimes extended ranges, but defense handgunning was still an arms' length proposition. The PPC police pistol course had only a few rounds at 50 yards. PPC matches were limited invariably to police and security personnel. The Big Bear Leatherslap, and later IPSC and IDPA, emphasized quick shooting at quite moderate ranges. The fast draw craze of the late 50's and 60's emphasized shooting at ZERO range, with blanks!
In the 70's, the hunting handgun became a sport pistol, and the silhouette game proved that a good sixgun or single shot could hold sub-3moa grouping to extreme ranges. Defense practice with autos still was hampered by their generally inferior accuracy, with most big frame service autos being incapable of better than 12-20 moa accuracy. It's the popularity of these latter 'crunchentickers' for IPSA, IDPA and such-like pseudo-combat games that has once more relegated the pistol in most user's minds to the 'close combat' role. Of course, some target autos approach a revolver's OOB accuracy, at the expense of inferior reliability.
A good sixgun or single shot is a useful tool to very extended ranges...with practice, and good ammunition. Many 'combat' shooters too would find their military and defense style autos surprising, if they practiced with them to longer ranges. I have to laugh when I read of some guy who thinks his new SigHKCz .401 Slapshot is a great gun because he gets 7-inch groups at ten yards. It has a lot more potential than that, as some astute owners have already learned.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
When I first came up in shooting, the long-range use of the cavalry pistol in the Civil War era was a distant memory. Pistol shooting was a close-in defensive activity for the military or police, or, rarely, the civilian defense shooter; the handgun viewed as the equivalent to a battle-axe, useful only at very close ranges.
In the 50's and 60's, the writings of Keith and Skelton and others woke us up to the potential of the big sixgun in hunting, to sometimes extended ranges, but defense handgunning was still an arms' length proposition. The PPC police pistol course had only a few rounds at 50 yards. PPC matches were limited invariably to police and security personnel. The Big Bear Leatherslap, and later IPSC and IDPA, emphasized quick shooting at quite moderate ranges. The fast draw craze of the late 50's and 60's emphasized shooting at ZERO range, with blanks!
In the 70's, the hunting handgun became a sport pistol, and the silhouette game proved that a good sixgun or single shot could hold sub-3moa grouping to extreme ranges. Defense practice with autos still was hampered by their generally inferior accuracy, with most big frame service autos being incapable of better than 12-20 moa accuracy. It's the popularity of these latter 'crunchentickers' for IPSA, IDPA and such-like pseudo-combat games that has once more relegated the pistol in most user's minds to the 'close combat' role. Of course, some target autos approach a revolver's OOB accuracy, at the expense of inferior reliability.
A good sixgun or single shot is a useful tool to very extended ranges...with practice, and good ammunition. Many 'combat' shooters too would find their military and defense style autos surprising, if they practiced with them to longer ranges. I have to laugh when I read of some guy who thinks his new SigHKCz .401 Slapshot is a great gun because he gets 7-inch groups at ten yards. It has a lot more potential than that, as some astute owners have already learned.
------------------
If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
A. What slabsides said is very right.
B. The National Match course of 50yds slow fire and 25yds timed and rapid fire ia a pretty good skill builder. Before slabsides n I started the slow fire was at 75yds.
c. If you get good at 25yd rapid fire, you have a very good chance of hittin that two inch wide stripe runnin down from the goblin's nose to just below his navel..Front on placement there has an excellent chance of STOPPING him as you are gonna get the spinal collumn or brain amongst other things. With long range skill comes even more short range skill. If your range is limited in distance, use small targets. "Think small, miss small."
With practice, a 2" J frame can score a possible on an IDPA course with loads that meet the power level. Reloadin the five shooters eats your time up but no shots out of the center will keep you in the pack.
Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R
B. The National Match course of 50yds slow fire and 25yds timed and rapid fire ia a pretty good skill builder. Before slabsides n I started the slow fire was at 75yds.
c. If you get good at 25yd rapid fire, you have a very good chance of hittin that two inch wide stripe runnin down from the goblin's nose to just below his navel..Front on placement there has an excellent chance of STOPPING him as you are gonna get the spinal collumn or brain amongst other things. With long range skill comes even more short range skill. If your range is limited in distance, use small targets. "Think small, miss small."
With practice, a 2" J frame can score a possible on an IDPA course with loads that meet the power level. Reloadin the five shooters eats your time up but no shots out of the center will keep you in the pack.
Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R