follow up shots?
- Thread starter charlesc
- Start date
bedbugbilly
New member
I'll throw my 2 cents in here - other's may disagree or have a better answer than I. I don't think that good follow up shots really have anything to do with caliber. yes, depending on the handgun, recoil and the individual "power" of the carriage you are using the muzzle rise, etc. may be different . . but . . to me it is all in "muscle training". In other words, developing a good grip, perfecting your stance and training your muscles so that once you have fired, the handgun comes back naturally to point of aim and is ready for the follow up shot. It isn't something that develops overnight but it does come with being consistent and lots of practice.
That is one thing I have always had some problems with. I recently took a SD class whee the instructor was very experienced (former Marine Spec Ops and a SWAT member). Shot follow up is the one thing he hammered in to us and he said by the end of the day at the range, we would see a big improvement in our shot follow up. He was right. He worked with us on our grip, our stance and after he was satisfied with that, lots of repetition to become "consistent" with the final desired results of "training" our muscles to react naturally to bringing the firearm back to POA almost instantly to release follow up shot.
Since the class, I have worked on it and it has helped greatly. I CCW either a Model 36 38 spl. snub or a Ruger SR9. Two different pistols, two different cartridges, two different recoils and two different muzzle rises. By repetitive exercises - and not always loaded/firing - it has almost become a natural thing to return to POA and get that second shot follow up. Dry firing exercises help a lot. You are not only training your body muscles but your eyes as well.
After every shot and then follow up shot - we maintained our aiming positions but were required to "scan" left and right to look for other "perps". After a while, it became second nature to scan and then instantly come back to POA and proper sight picture for another follow up shot.
All of this should be done without anticipation of "recoil" entering in to it - it should become an instinct.
As I said, I got a lot out of the training and I've found my ability to stay on target and do follow up shot that is much more accurate than before - all in center mass and if not touching, within about a 1 1/2" circle with my SR9 at SD distances.
That is one thing I have always had some problems with. I recently took a SD class whee the instructor was very experienced (former Marine Spec Ops and a SWAT member). Shot follow up is the one thing he hammered in to us and he said by the end of the day at the range, we would see a big improvement in our shot follow up. He was right. He worked with us on our grip, our stance and after he was satisfied with that, lots of repetition to become "consistent" with the final desired results of "training" our muscles to react naturally to bringing the firearm back to POA almost instantly to release follow up shot.
Since the class, I have worked on it and it has helped greatly. I CCW either a Model 36 38 spl. snub or a Ruger SR9. Two different pistols, two different cartridges, two different recoils and two different muzzle rises. By repetitive exercises - and not always loaded/firing - it has almost become a natural thing to return to POA and get that second shot follow up. Dry firing exercises help a lot. You are not only training your body muscles but your eyes as well.
After every shot and then follow up shot - we maintained our aiming positions but were required to "scan" left and right to look for other "perps". After a while, it became second nature to scan and then instantly come back to POA and proper sight picture for another follow up shot.
All of this should be done without anticipation of "recoil" entering in to it - it should become an instinct.
As I said, I got a lot out of the training and I've found my ability to stay on target and do follow up shot that is much more accurate than before - all in center mass and if not touching, within about a 1 1/2" circle with my SR9 at SD distances.
This matches my experience, given similar pistols.
It is easiest to do followup shots with .22, but you might need more of them. 
Among the calibers that show similar performance in ballistic gel, the order above is a common response, shooting the different calibers out of similar pistols.
Pistol mass and bore axis affect perceived recoil. Other mechanical differences also may affect recoil and therefore the accuracy and speed of followup shots; the reduced recoil produced by the rotating barrel system in the Beretta PX4 comes to mind.
.380 is lower in recoil than the above-referenced "major" calibers, but doesn't perform quite as well in ballistic gel. And pistols chambered for .380 are often small, light, and/or have mechanical characteristics that increase recoil and adversely affect followup shots.
Among the calibers that show similar performance in ballistic gel, the order above is a common response, shooting the different calibers out of similar pistols.
Pistol mass and bore axis affect perceived recoil. Other mechanical differences also may affect recoil and therefore the accuracy and speed of followup shots; the reduced recoil produced by the rotating barrel system in the Beretta PX4 comes to mind.
.380 is lower in recoil than the above-referenced "major" calibers, but doesn't perform quite as well in ballistic gel. And pistols chambered for .380 are often small, light, and/or have mechanical characteristics that increase recoil and adversely affect followup shots.
In my hands using my criteria
Glock 19 vs Glock 23
Average 2nd shot time based on both 1st & 2nd shot hitting a 6 inch circle at 6-7 yards.
Using +p 124 HST or +p+ Ranger T in the 19: about .25 sec
Using 180 gr Hydra Shok in the 23: about .26 sec
Hotter 165 or 155 gr in the 23 would increase time.
Glock 30 SF with flush magazine (no room for pinky) and 230 gr about .29 sec
9mm is easier by fractions of a second.
Glock 19 vs Glock 23
Average 2nd shot time based on both 1st & 2nd shot hitting a 6 inch circle at 6-7 yards.
Using +p 124 HST or +p+ Ranger T in the 19: about .25 sec
Using 180 gr Hydra Shok in the 23: about .26 sec
Hotter 165 or 155 gr in the 23 would increase time.
Glock 30 SF with flush magazine (no room for pinky) and 230 gr about .29 sec
9mm is easier by fractions of a second.
g.willikers
New member
Like bedbugbilly sez,
The gun is the least of it.
The gun is the least of it.
chris in va
New member
In my experience, 9mm.
.22LR Lower recoil generally means faster follow ups. Of course there are other factors involved in quick follow ups, but it starts with having a low recoil round. The less recoil, the less muzzle jump, the faster you can get your sights back on target.
Training is more important because you can have people like Jerry Miculek who can shoot .50BMG at over 360RPM and empty 6 shots into a target in under a second.
http://youtu.be/GXEK7rcqO-Y
Training is more important because you can have people like Jerry Miculek who can shoot .50BMG at over 360RPM and empty 6 shots into a target in under a second.
http://youtu.be/GXEK7rcqO-Y
Bob Wright
New member
A good .22 revolver is ideal for follow-up shots, as there is less meat damage. Also a shot to the back of the head is quick and certain, if needed.
Bob Wright
Bob Wright
I know one thing it's not all the result of caliber. My follow ups are more accurate with either my S&W M&P 9c or Sig P226 than with my S&W Bodyguard 380. Comfort, size or ability to absorb recoil, trigger pull, and practice all play a role. Despite the lower caliber of the 380 it is much smaller and perkier and has a longer, heavier trigger pull than to the two 9mm.
101combatvet
New member
Practice, practice, practice! It's more on the shooter than on the caliber. However, with less recoil the sight picture can be obtained faster. You can narrow that time down and get back on target with practice in any caliber. Practice both rapid fire and slow fire and check group sizes to see how you are progressing.
Glock 19 vs Glock 23
Average 2nd shot time based on both 1st & 2nd shot hitting a 6 inch circle at 6-7 yards.
Using +p 124 HST or +p+ Ranger T in the 19: about .25 sec
Using 180 gr Hydra Shok in the 23: about .26 sec
Hotter 165 or 155 gr in the 23 would increase time.
Glock 30 SF with flush magazine (no room for pinky) and 230 gr about .29 sec
9mm is easier by fractions of a second.
These certainly don't represent typical carriers. People getting hits at sub .30 split times have generally got sufficient skill to run most calibers. If this was the norm, caliber would barely be a debate.