focusing on front sight - how clear is the target?

D

divil

New member
This is something that has bothered me for a while. I want to learn to shoot with iron sights. I can shoot a pistol reasonably well with iron sights, but I'm terrible with a rifle. The best way I can describe the problem is this: I can see the target just fine at say, 50 or 100 yards. I can see the front sight just fine. But when I focus on the front sight sharply, the target becomes too blurred - it's hard to tell the difference between centre hold and 6 o clock hold. Obviously no one can focus on both at once - but is it normal for the target to be very blurry when focused on the front sight, or should it only be slightly blurry? I don't know if this is my eyes, or just a matter of getting used to it. Somehow it doesn't seem to be as bad with a pistol, although typically I do that at 25 yards. Closing my left eye seems to improve it slightly, but I find that uncomfortable so I'd like to learn to shoot with both eyes open. In any case, the front sight is clearer with both open.

My vision isn't perfect - I know I have astigmatism in my left eye, but it's not so bad that I need glasses (I passed a test for a driver's license recently). I've never worn any kind of correction and never had problems reading or driving. I do a lot of driver's license eye tests because I move a lot.

So, how does the target look to you at 50 or 100 yards when you're focusing on the front sight, and do you have any tips on how to improve the clarity? Thanks!
 
Is the front sight at least 24" from your eye? That seems to be a minimum distance for 20/20 eyes to get the clear front sight with enough to see the target reasonably. But with the front sight perfectly clear, the target will be a bit blurry. With the target clear, the front sight will be a bit blurry. The narrower and further away you can get the front sight, the better.

If it was easy, the optics companies would be out of business. :D
 
Yes, I think it's at least that far away. But it's interesting that you say that because I have previously always tried to get my eye as close as possible to the rear sight. I'm using an aperture sight and I was told this was a good idea. Obviously that means I'm getting my eye closer to the front sight too, but it didn't occur to me that that might be a problem. I've been trying different techniques and I've found that keeping my head further back is a lot more comfortable and less tiring on my eyes - when I was trying to get my eye right up there it forced my left eye close to the limit of it's travel. If keeping my head further back could help with the target clarity too then it's a win win.
 
Focusing on the front sight is critical. The target,of course, becomes fuzzy. The eye cannot keep both in focus. Being able to hold on a specific point on that fuzzy target is the difference between the good shooters and the great shooters. Depending on ones eyes the level of fuzzy varies. As long as you can choose a spot to hold on consistently you'll have success. If you can keep both eyes open that's a plus. Some of us with eye issues have to resort to corrective glasses and other devices to shoot straight.
 
Front sight should be absolutely crisp -- even if all else is "fuzzy".
Although it would be nice to have everything sharp, front sight focus insures "Least Error"

If need be (and it will be) get fixed-focus glasses that have the focus point at 30".
(Explain to your optometrist that you need then "for occupational work" ;) )
or get a Merit aperture for your existing/safety glasses
 
As others have already said - focus on the front sight and let the target be blurry. An important caveat is that the target shouldn't be so blurry as to be unusable. If you use your reading glasses, for instance, you'll get a crisp front sight, but the target will be way too blurry.

Generally, adding +0.75 diopters to your distance prescription works pretty well. If you're distance vision needs no correction, or if your contacts correct for vision, for example, glasses with a +0.75 in the sighting lens ought to work pretty well.
 
4EVERM-14 nailed it. Your eyes cannot focus on two things at once. You have to pick one and its critical that it be the front sight.

Yes the target will be fuzzy, so what, put the fuzzy ball on top of the clear, sharp front sight and you're good to go. The fuzzy ball has to be constant, whether the front sight is in the center or like a pumpkin on a fence post.

My best 1000 yards scores have been with a M-14, its doable.

I tell people to pretend the front sight is on a lever, or rail, and the trigger is used to slide the front sight to the rear. We know the front sight wont slide back when you pull the trigger, but if you concentrate, try to make it slide back it would appear that it is sliding to the rear, what is really happening, because you are concentrating, the front sight is clearer and sharper, making it look like it is getting larger and closer.
 
kraigwy said:
4EVERM-14 nailed it. Your eyes cannot focus on two things at once. You have to pick one and its critical that it be the front sight.

Yes the target will be fuzzy, so what, put the fuzzy ball on top of the clear, sharp front sight and you're good to go. The fuzzy ball has to be constant, whether the front sight is in the center or like a pumpkin on a fence post.

My best 1000 yards scores have been with a M-14, its doable.

I tell people to pretend the front sight is on a lever, or rail, and the trigger is used to slide the front sight to the rear. We know the front sight wont slide back when you pull the trigger, but if you concentrate, try to make it slide back it would appear that it is sliding to the rear, what is really happening, because you are concentrating, the front sight is clearer and sharper, making it look like it is getting larger and closer.
Click to expand...
I like this, I think I will try this when I go shooting this weekend. I am similar to the op, great at pistols and rifles so so, but I have better than 20/10 vision and with the rifle I can always hit the target but have trouble zeroing in on accurate shots...ie. Bulls eye.
 
sandmansans
I like this, I think I will try this when I go shooting this weekend. I am similar to the op, great at pistols and rifles so so, but I have better than 20/10 vision and with the rifle I can always hit the target but have trouble zeroing in on accurate shots...ie. Bulls eye.
Click to expand...

With 20/10 vision you should be a Highmaster. The sight picture must look like a high resolution photograph. I envy your eyes. After 60 years above ground my sight picture is like tin plate Civil War image. Luckily with corrective lenses I can still see the front post and enough clarity of the bull to hold on a specific point on the target. Most of the time.
 
4EVERM-14 said:
With 20/10 vision you should be a Highmaster. The sight picture must look like a high resolution photograph. I envy your eyes. After 60 years above ground my sight picture is like tin plate Civil War image. Luckily with corrective lenses I can still see the front post and enough clarity of the bull to hold on a specific point on the target. Most of the time.
Click to expand...
Lol thank you! To make you feel better I didn't even know, until I was at the emergency room a couple of years ago because I got a piece of metal in my eye and they did a vision test there. It did explain how I could always read small letters from far away while no one else could.
 
I did a very approximate DIY test at home and I estimate my vision is around 20/40 at best. Next I'm going to make some scaled down targets so I can practice aiming at home and try to figure out what my limits are.
 
It may be time to visit an optomitrist

Divil:
I am not an optomistrist and hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it may be that your eyesight is changing. When I was younger, my vision was better than 20/20. When I reached my late-20s, I became more near-sighted (i.e.: far objects became more blurry) and obtained contacts. When I turned 40, my optomistrist said my eyes were too dry for contacts, which is a common occurrence. So I obtained glasses. After I turned 50, I had to get progressive trifocals. Since returning to shooting, I found the mid-distance prescription (at arm's length) was a very narrow band which made it difficult to focus on the front sight. Recently, I purchased a set of progressive trifocals just for shooting. I had them move the mid-distance higher on the lense which created a wider (actually taller) band for mid-distance. I have seen some posts which recommend going to an optomitrist who is a shooter and can help you out. I went to Costco where they were very helpful and suggested larger frames to accommodate the taller mid-distance prescription. I can't say the shooting glasses are stylish, but they are certainly more functional and provide more protection for my eyes.
 
"...get my eye as close as possible to the rear sight..." Quit doing that. You're going to get hurt. Whoever told you to have your eye close to the aperture is daft.
A peep rear should be about the same distance away from your eye as a scope's rear ocular. You look through a peep, never at it. Then just sit the fuzzy target on the blade.
"...scaled down targets..." Can be down loaded. Some are here. NRA's are about half way down.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/targets/
There's no DIY eye test.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely do need to see an optometrist who shoots. The thing is, I have never practiced rifle shooting persistently, so I can't really complain about my current performance anyway. But it's hard to practice when I am not really sure how much of it is my technique and how much is just the limit of my vision.

At the weekend I had a go at it for the first time in at least a year. Out of 30 rounds fired at 50 yards, I had 26 of them in a group around 3.5x2.5 inches, and 4 outliers that I probably jerked. But my trigger control is not great anyway on this rifle. I find it hard to get a comfortable grip on this one, and I haven't yet settled into a consistent way of shouldering it either. I didn't have a spotting scope, so I might have shot a series of smaller 5 round groups for all I know. There's definitely room for improvement in my technique. But regardless, I was never confident that I was aiming consistently.
 
I assume that you use your 40 eye to aim the rifle? What you can possibly do...is to train your mind to have your 20 eye focus on the target while your 40 eye focuses on the sights; and bring the image in as one sight picture for your brain. You'll have to possibly train your subconscious that this technique can be done.

I have 20/40 eyes also. My dominant right eye is my 20 eye, but the front sight is fuzzy. I can shoot a pistol right handed with this kind of mind trick, for a clear sight and target picture, without the use of a diopter --- but it is more difficult to perform such a mind trick in the dark --- Otherwise I'd have to shoot left handed for a rifle with iron sights for a clear sight an target picture.
 
I definitely aim with my dominant eye, and that eye is sharper. But either you or I have misunderstood what "20/40" means. Could well be me...I was under the impression that it refers to your overall vision - that is, if you can read what most people can read at 20 feet, at 20 feet, you have 20/20 vision. If you can read what most people can only read at 10 feet, at 20 feet, then you have 20/10 (better than "normal"). From my test I seem to be able to just about manage the 40-foot sized letters[1] at 20 feet, so that would be 20/40. It just means to I need to be as close as 20 feet to see with the clarity that I *should* have at 40 feet. It doesn't mean you have one eye that's 20 and one that's 40, although it could mean that.

[1] BTW I don't mean that the letters are actually 40 feet tall lol...you know what I mean :)
 
My left eye is short sighted, and my dominant right eye is long sighted. If I want to read a book...my left eye instantly takes over --- If I want to see a distant object my right eye instantly takes over for a clear focus --- Though I can't read a book with my driving glasses on {unless I purchase bifocals}. I don't use prescription glasses while on the firing range or in the field --- though a diopter pasted on my safety glasses over my right eye, does help me have a clear focus on the front sight.
 
Last edited:
So I noticed something interesting today. I have an AR-15 with peep sights and I find it way easier to see the target with that. It's a while since I used it, and I only just put the peep sights on the .22, so I hadn't realized what a difference was is until now. The sight picture on the .22 has enough room for the target (i.e. the sight itself is not blocking it), it's just not clear. I suppose it's just not letting enough light through.

Comparing the 2 rifles, the difference is that the AR's rear sight is about 10" closer to my eye than the rear sight on my .22. The aperture looks way bigger when I aim the AR-15 (though in fact it is a little smaller). The front sight is closer by even more (13.5") but I still don't have any trouble focusing on it.

Now, the Skinner peep sight I have on the .22 has a removable aperture, which makes the aperture much bigger, but it still doesn't show me the target as clearly as the AR. So it seems that getting the rear sight closer will make life a lot easier. There is a Tech Sight set available for my rifle that gets the rear much closer to the eye - unfortunately I don't think there's any way to get it as close as the AR-15 though.

I still plan to talk to see an optometrist but I think it's definitely worth looking into the other sights (no pun intended :) )
 
The size of the rear aperture will make a big difference in how you see the target and front sight. A large size allows in a lot of light. A small aperture increases the depth of field which can improve the clarity of the of the sight picture. The short coming will be that it might strain the eye and would be difficult on dark days. So there is a balance of peep size and any optical correction for best picture . Young eyes can usually handle any arrangement. It's the old farts that are always searching for the most workable setup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top