I noticed this new calibur introduced with the P90 and now the FiveseveN, both guns our scumbag federal government won't let us own right now, and a lot of people are excited about this round because it's so zippy. There's been a pretty good zippy and powerful handgun round out for a while now though in the form of the 7.62x25.... what do you think about the respective qualities of each and how they compare?
FN 5.7 vs. 7.62x25
- Thread starter Dangus
- Start date
One is essentialy a carbine round in a pistol (FN), the other a hot pistol cartrige with a larger diamiter bullet....
With magnetic loads ( i.e. pig steel bullets) and a mean velocity of at least 1450-1500 I would say the Tokarev is a good value for the money, and legal... but still low capacity. It is not that great as a primary wepon due to that factor ( if you intend to face off with those who have FN 57's)...side by side with an AK or Druganov, its perfect for real combat.
With magnetic loads ( i.e. pig steel bullets) and a mean velocity of at least 1450-1500 I would say the Tokarev is a good value for the money, and legal... but still low capacity. It is not that great as a primary wepon due to that factor ( if you intend to face off with those who have FN 57's)...side by side with an AK or Druganov, its perfect for real combat.
Many 7.62X35 rounds are in the 1500 fps or more catagory. That 1390 figure is a bit low, probly a mauser loading. Still you are very correct that the 57 is superior, being of modern design, engineering, capacity and initial intent.
Still with a cz-52 and hot magnetic loads...you get the idea!
Still with a cz-52 and hot magnetic loads...you get the idea!
ft pounds are a terrible measure of a cartridge's true power though, joules is a vastly superiour measurement, and isn't so dependant on cross-section......
I mean, make a 2mm ball go fast enough and it could have 1000 ft. pounds of force, but make a 9mm round somewhat slower and it might have 950 ft. pounds of force, but it's actual energy is considerably greater due to much greater momentum. I wished that the rest of the world would take a hint from the Russian arms industry and use joules to measure such things...
I mean, make a 2mm ball go fast enough and it could have 1000 ft. pounds of force, but make a 9mm round somewhat slower and it might have 950 ft. pounds of force, but it's actual energy is considerably greater due to much greater momentum. I wished that the rest of the world would take a hint from the Russian arms industry and use joules to measure such things...
I bought my Norinco ammo on assumtion that it was copeer fmj lead...got kicked off the range for dammaging the backstop!
You really should test the load with a magnet to be sure...but much of the checz ammo is ...
see this link that was posted earlier..
http"//w3.one.net/~melchar/tokarev/index.html
This site *may* be a bit dated..I would order a small amount test it, if its good buy a few cases
You really should test the load with a magnet to be sure...but much of the checz ammo is ...
see this link that was posted earlier..
http"//w3.one.net/~melchar/tokarev/index.html
This site *may* be a bit dated..I would order a small amount test it, if its good buy a few cases
Mike P. Wagner
New member
I wonder where "Cartridges of the World" got that data for the 7.62x25. The Winchester ammo says 1647 fps, and I think that the S&B is roughly the same. But everyone I've seen quote the Cartriges report the lower velocity. If anyone cares, here's the Winchester page:
http://www.winchester.com/ammunitio...e=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&traj=on
Mike P. Wagner
http://www.winchester.com/ammunitio...e=on&summary=on&velocity=on&energy=on&traj=on
Mike P. Wagner
Mike P. Wagner
New member
BTW, the S&B page claims 503 m/sec = 1646 fps. They also claim 693 joules = 510 ft/lbs.
Here's the web page:
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol.htm
Mike P. Wagner
Here's the web page:
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/pistol.htm
Mike P. Wagner
BrokenArrow
New member
The 5.7x28 is the bottleneck cartridge FN chambers the P90 subgun and Five-seveN pistol for.
31 gr FMJ at 2329 fps from the P90, and 1971 from the pistol.
Plugging it into the Fuller Index (humor me) we get:
P90 12 inches bare gel, 9.25 cloth, 9.75 after IIA Kevlar
An estimated OSS of 70%
The pistol does 7.75, 9.0, 6.0
OSS of 60%
Great for wounding troops, not stopping BGs ASAP? Would a JHP be better? Worse?
Does not seem even close to the 223/5.56 or 224 Boz.
Mike >>>>------->
IWBA Wound Ballistics Review has the following article: "Wound profile of the 5.7x28mm FN Cartridge (SS 190) fired from the FN P90 submachine gun," by three ballistics researchers with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
The results: The average depth of bullet penetration in all test events (bare gelatin, gelatin covered with heavy clothing, and gelatin covered with level II soft body armor) was 10.4" with no bullet deformation and fissures created by temporary cavitation not greater than 3.75".
"The SS 190 31 grain bullet as fired through the FN P90 submachine gun has a very limited penetration profile with no bullet deformation as tested and is probably not as effective as many hollowpoint handgun ammunitions, except in
its ability to defeat soft body armor. Fackler, contradicting FN's claims, best describes the performance of the ammunition relative to the 9mm stating '...the expanded 9mm bullet strikes about three times as much tissue as the P-90 bullet at 90 degrees of yaw -- and does it throughout most of its path. Thus, the permanent cavity volume produced by the expanded 9mm bullet is many times larger than that produced by the nondeforming P-90 bullet.'"
31 gr FMJ at 2329 fps from the P90, and 1971 from the pistol.
Plugging it into the Fuller Index (humor me) we get:
P90 12 inches bare gel, 9.25 cloth, 9.75 after IIA Kevlar
An estimated OSS of 70%
The pistol does 7.75, 9.0, 6.0
OSS of 60%
Great for wounding troops, not stopping BGs ASAP? Would a JHP be better? Worse?
Does not seem even close to the 223/5.56 or 224 Boz.
Mike >>>>------->
IWBA Wound Ballistics Review has the following article: "Wound profile of the 5.7x28mm FN Cartridge (SS 190) fired from the FN P90 submachine gun," by three ballistics researchers with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
The results: The average depth of bullet penetration in all test events (bare gelatin, gelatin covered with heavy clothing, and gelatin covered with level II soft body armor) was 10.4" with no bullet deformation and fissures created by temporary cavitation not greater than 3.75".
"The SS 190 31 grain bullet as fired through the FN P90 submachine gun has a very limited penetration profile with no bullet deformation as tested and is probably not as effective as many hollowpoint handgun ammunitions, except in
its ability to defeat soft body armor. Fackler, contradicting FN's claims, best describes the performance of the ammunition relative to the 9mm stating '...the expanded 9mm bullet strikes about three times as much tissue as the P-90 bullet at 90 degrees of yaw -- and does it throughout most of its path. Thus, the permanent cavity volume produced by the expanded 9mm bullet is many times larger than that produced by the nondeforming P-90 bullet.'"
Slightly off-topic, but I just have to say this...
Dangus said: "I wished that the rest of the world would take a hint from the Russian arms industry and use joules to measure such things..."
Uh, Dangus, there's more to the world than just the U.S. and Russia. In fact only in U.S. (AFAIK) are foot-pounds used when measuring the energy of ammunition. The rest of the world does use joules.
Dangus said: "I wished that the rest of the world would take a hint from the Russian arms industry and use joules to measure such things..."
Uh, Dangus, there's more to the world than just the U.S. and Russia. In fact only in U.S. (AFAIK) are foot-pounds used when measuring the energy of ammunition. The rest of the world does use joules.
Kenneth L. Walters
New member
No such Ruger
I e-mailed a friend at Ruger about this cartridge. No such gun has been made.
I e-mailed a friend at Ruger about this cartridge. No such gun has been made.