FMJ

F

FUD

Moderator
We all know that not all hollowpoints are created equally -- even Marshall & Sanow and The Fackerites agree on this. But what about FMJs? Suppose you live in a community (like NJ) which prohibits the use of hollowpoint ammo (I don't but I use to)? Sticking strickly with FMJs (no bee-safe or anything like that), is there a difference between the various FMJs? Or, within a given caliber, are they all pretty much the same?
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
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Generally, I think that flatpoint would be better, the larger the flat point the better.

Here's where I really DO agree with the .45 freaks. If you've got to shoot hardball, shoot .45.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Irwin: ... Here's where I really DO agree with the .45 freaks. If you've got to shoot hardball, shoot .45 ...[/quote]I was thinking more in the 9mm caliber. I have a BHP that does not like hollowpoints. I received some good advise in another post on how to correct the problem but a couple of other people also pointed out that it might be best to just leave the gun along since it is over two decades old and preserve it's historical value. Therefore, I was thinking about which FMJs in 9mm would be most effective.

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited July 17, 2000).]
 
Check the websites of the different ammo makers. They all pretty much post their ballistics. Also watch for Federals new Expanding Full Metal Jacket round. As I understand it, the 9mm load should be coming out soon.
 
If I were stuck with that problem I would consider 147grn loaded as hot as possible. Hot for 147 would probably be close to 1000fps.
 
I've wondered about flat point ammo in 9mm; Fiocchi puts out a 123gr flat point--only they call it "Truncated Cone." It's a FMJ bullet. I've found it very reliable, but I've never seen anything about its knock down power.

Does anybody know anything about the effectiveness of 9mm flatpoint, aka truncated cone?

Joe
 
I have read that flat point bullets tumble once they enter a target more than the more aero(and tissue)dynamic FMJ shape, hence leaving a larger wound channel.

Ledbetter
 
FUD,
I'll tell you what this freedom lover, trapped behind the Trenton Wall, does. Of course my first choice is the Persuader, loaded with 8 rounds of 000 Tactical Buck. My second is the P-97 w/230 gr. hardball. Third would be any of my .40s loaded w/180 gr. flatnose hardball. Since the .40 is the smallest round I would trust my life to in FMJ, I don't even consider keeping the other calibers (9mm, .357 Sig, 9x18, .380) loaded.

I'm very concerned with a round hitting my neighbor 3 doors away, so I only use slow, heavy rounds (that way I'll only hit my neighbor 2 doors away).

NJ Politicians can't seem to get it through their thick sculls, that requiring the law abiding to use FMJ will result in more deaths, not less deaths. Of course it means more deaths of Good guys and innocent bystanders, and less deaths of BGs. Oh, I forgot, that's what they want. Some idiot a few years back, introduced a bill that would have outlawed "any bullet that expands". I've got to get out of this freaking state!
 
Hello, FUD. It may be that when Federal's expanding full metal jacketed round in 9mm hits the market, you will find your solution.
M&S don't rate SWCs any higher than ball in the same weight and velocity, but factory ammo using SWCs that they tested are completely swaged! Swaged SWCs never have as
sharp of shoulder as cast and the flat noses may or may not be the same. Intuitively, I feel certain that a hardcast .357 158 gr SWC
is "better" than a Remington 158 gr swaged SWC. I can tell you from personal experience that the latter load's entrance and exit wounds are about 4mm in diameter. Not very scientific, but testing .45ACP cast SWC (H&G #68) handloads (1030 ft/sec) did NOT blow up water jugs to any greater degree than did ball at 850 ft/sec, just a little splash and wiggle on the jug and glug, glug, glug as the water ran out the entrance and exit. At that time (about 25 years ago, most JHPs did NOT expand), I was working with .45 Colt SWCs in .45ACP. Casting the normally 260 gr SWC from pure linotype and sizing to .452", I was able to work up a load that was accurate and reliable in a Series 70 Colt. Velocity was about 860 ft/sec. You know, I'm sure, that this has a huge flat point about the size of a .38 full wadcutter and a sharp shoulder. The jugs exploded. Again, I am the first to admit that water jugs are not the end all on testing, but it's what I had. Also, ductseal was much in vogue during this time. Tests in it showed much, much larger "wound channels" than did any other SWCs, ball, or JHPs except the ancient Super Vel 190 gr. I think that were I having the problems you mention and didn't want to alter the original weapon's bbl/ramp or buy a new bbl, I'd look at Federal 115 gr JHP or Remington's 115 gr JHP.
If even they do not feed, try downloading the magazine a tad like one or two rounds. If that doesn't work, you might try Hornady's 115 or 124 gr line of JHPs. This bullet's much more pointed than some and might do the trick. If that fails, use another defensive 9mm until the expanding FMJ comes out. I will check around at some other bullet profiles for you, but I'm sure that the one's I mentioned are the most like ball in ogive.
Best.
 
Numbers and Ledbetter: on pages 8 and 22 of the Guns and Ammo "Complete Book of the 9mm" 0-8227-3099-5, G&A Action series, Vol 10, #6 are pictures of the flat point conical ball shape in question and they state this was the original pre-1915 Wehrmacht issue load.
 
Now that I posted, IIRC Magsafe originally had a Jersey load using ball profile jackets with open bullet base into which the poured their shot and epoxy mixture. Have heard that it did work and spilled the innercore on impact but was withdrawn when vest piercing rounds were prohibited as it's high velocity allowed it to work but the lower velocity loads that replaced them for legality were too slow to effectively shatter. That's the story, and it might even be true.
 
Just thought of something...

No HP in NJ, but what about soft point lead?

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Mike,

Just the idea I was thinking about.

For example, in .357 magnum I've always felt the jacketed soft point loads (158 or 125 grain) are HIGHLY effective, since they will penetrate and enlarge. For NJ, they are likely a "jacketed" round???

Regards.
 
If I had to carry FMJ's in a 9mm I would load it with the lightest possible bullet at the fastest possible speed such as a 95 grain sierra flat point at 1450. The light weight will keep the penitration down hopefully. It will probably still got straight through the guy but it will have more energy to impart than the wimpy 147 grainers. Also the light bullet with less momentium will penitrate less so it is less likly to overpenitrate than a heavier slower fmj.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
Softpoint handgun bullets even in 357 and 44 magnum never expand in thin skinned creaters like people. They only expand I mean deform if they hit a large bone. their no better than a good flat point jacket bullet.
PAT

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I intend to go into harms way.
 
In some circumstances, I prefer FMJ. If I get in a shootout in the middle of nowhere, I want to overpenetrate like nothing you ever dreamed of. (Keep in mind, I do live in a desert.) In case I ever have to go through four or five cars before hitting my target, I picked up some 158 Grain 357 Magnum FMJ. Out of an 8 3/8" barrel, I can't think of much I can't take care of with them.
 
My "Jersey" load would have to be any 185gr. SWC that I could find in .45. If that were unavailable, or unreliable, I would seek out a truncated cone design, like the new Winclean series. Ditto for the .40. I would probably eschew the 9mm, for fear that OP would be too great. Instead, I would use a revolver w/WC, or SWC ammo.
 
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