Flying over other states

Doug.38PR

Moderator
Okay, this is something that occured to me when I had a lot of time to think while driving for 3 hours yesterday.

Suppose you get onboard your private plane and fly from Texas to North Dakota. You carry your CHL and handgun with you. You fly over Kansas. Kansas doesn't have reciprocity with Texas. What do you do? Suppose you are ordered to land in Kansas somewhere either by the police ordering you to or you experience engine trouble.

We talk all the time about driving in other states, what about flying over other states
 
This is easy, if you cannot legally carry in the State you have "force-landed" in, you merely take your gun out of its carry position, unload it and lock it in a baggage compartment. If you are met at gunpoint when you land and don't have time to do the above, you probably have bigger problems to worry about.

Dean
 
Are you carrying because you are concerned with airwaymen, sky pirates, and the like? I haven't heard of a private plane being hijacked by another plane while in flight.

Just curious, why are the police forcing you to land? Do you have ICARRY painted on your plane and are trying to engage the tower in a conversation concerning 2nd Amendment rights? Or are you carrying contraband?
 
Zombies in Kansas are luring in meals with false tower calls.

It would be silly to carry the gun flying across non-compliant states. Just pack it away with no ammo, etc.
 
Wasn't there a case about a guy with a bunch of guns in a plane (he was totally legal) and he was forced to land in Massachusetts or New York due to weather and was arrested. I googled for it and couldn't find it.

How would anyone know anway? I"m not a pilot but I've taken a few private flights and I don't know of any where where you declare guns when you file the flight plan.

In most cases my gun carrying habits are on a need to know basis and I don't see how anyone would need to know.
 
I think there have been folks diverted in scheduled airlines to nongun friendly state who had to transfer their bags and then got busted in the airport.

Check before you trust me.
 
I fly my own plane cross country....lots.

While I don't play an attorney on TV and didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, I will provide the benefit of my observations:
1) I have never had my plane searched except by Customs when returning to the country. They came up with my (Florida legal) pistol and didn't bat an eyelash....nor did they question whether I had broken the laws of the Cayman Islands.

2) I do not generally keep a pistol on me in the plane....it's just too much of a pain for a six hour flight to TX and I'm not too frightened of air piracy. In other words, why would you have a loaded gun on your person?

3) I have been busted in one of those "unfriendly" states while checking baggage containing "loaded" (empty chamber) semiautos....eight of 'em. The year was 1996. The place was JFK. The Delta agent was informed of the firearms and didn't tell security when he threw them on the conveyor.

While I did spend a few hours in Queens County Lockup and it did take one attorney and several months to get my property back, nobody ever suggested possible charges for violating New York's firearms laws (except to the extent that they threatened to argue that the firearms were "loaded").

4) In 2004, a maintenance worker at Presott Airport in AZ was asked to take a look at my plane. He got all bent and called me to let me know that they don't allow firearms on the airport. I asked, "So let me understand this....the fiream is legal if I check it into the baggage compartment of a commercial airliner, but it's suddenly illegal if I transport it the exact same way in my private aircraft." It was a very short phone conversation after that.

5) Federal law allows for safe passage with containerized, unloaded firearms in the trunk of your car....thru all states. Heck, to my knowledge, you can even transport a box of those New Jersey Cop Killer Hollow Points, a hi-cap pistol that didn't pass the Drop Test and a MA banned "Assault Rifle" from South Carolina to New Hampshire, stopping in Cherry Hill, the Bronx, New Haven and Boston for gas.

Moral of the story:
Before you do that "emergency landing" in Delaware, unload it, case it and lock it. The biggest threats to life and limb:
A) Unloading a firearm in a moving plane....that's why it's best to keep it unloaded from jump.
B) Making the landing under the emergency that has caused you to divert in the first place.

YMMV....but at current Avgas prices, it shouldn't matter much. ;)

Rich
 
Some states have difficulty understanding federal law:

ANJRPC SUES NY/NJ PORT AUTHORITY FOR JAILING HONEST GUN OWNER

February 27, 2006 - The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, Inc. (ANJRPC) announced that it has commenced a lawsuit against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and one of its police officers for wrongfully arresting and imprisoning for nearly five days a 57-year old Utah man delayed at Newark Airport by a baggage error while traveling from Utah to Pennsylvania.

The lawsuit seeks more than $3 million in damages for civil rights violations and a permanent injunction forcing the Port Authority to follow Federal law on interstate transport of locked, unloaded firearms that have been secured in luggage and declared by law-abiding citizens.

The Utah man, Gregg Revell, a real estate broker and family man with no criminal record and a Utah firearms permit, was flying alone from Salt Lake City, UT to Allentown, PA to retrieve a car he bought and drive it home. He was travelling with a firearm for personal protection. As required by Federal law, the firearm was unloaded, cased, locked and inside his luggage when he declared it at check-in in Salt Lake City on March 31, 2005.

Due to an airline-caused baggage error, Mr. Revell missed his connection from Newark to Allentown and had to stay overnight in New Jersey. When he checked in at Newark Airport the next morning to complete his travels, he again declared his firearm, as required by FAA regulations. He was then arrested for possession of a firearm without a New Jersey state license, and imprisoned in Essex County jail for five days until his family arranged bail, which had been initially set unusually high at $15,000 cash (no bond).

But Mr. Revell’s travels were protected by the Firearms Owner Protection Act, a Federal law passed in 1986 to protect law-abiding citizens who travel with firearms. (See 18 U.S.C. § 926A.) That law trumps state and local gun laws and protects interstate travel with firearms under certain circumstances, all of which were present in Mr. Revell’s case. Several months after the arrest, all charges were withdrawn and the prosecutor’s case administratively dismissed.

"The Port Authority blatantly violated Federal law when it arrested Gregg Revell," said Scott Bach, President of the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs and a member of the NRA Board of Directors. "Those charged with enforcing the law have a special responsibility to follow it themselves," Bach continued. "Mr. Revell’s arrest is part of a pattern of similar misconduct by the Port Authority throughout the New York-New Jersey metropolitan areas."

"This lawsuit is intended to send a signal not only to the Port Authority but to every agency and officer responsible for policing our airports and highways: if you violate the rights of law-abiding gun owners, you will be held fully accountable." The lawsuit also names the arresting Port Authority police officer, Scott Erickson, as a defendant.

Once inside Essex County prison, Mr. Revell was subjected to numerous atrocities. He was thrown into a holding cell with 28 inmates, many of whom were admitted murderers and rapists. He endured a repulsive vomit-covered bed and toilet, was denied his blood pressure and migraine medication, innoculated against his will, given inedible food, strip-searched, and left only with his wits to survive.

"I did nothing wrong yet was arrested and subjected to the worst treatment imaginable for almost a week," said Mr. Revell, who has 8 children, 8 grandchildren and has been married for 36 years. "I brought this lawsuit together with the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs because I want to stop this kind of abuse from ever happening again," said Revell. "No one should ever have to experience what I experienced," he said. "I paid the price, but I’m committed to making sure no one else does."

http://www.anjrpc.org/fopalawsuit.htm
 
Port Authority....Uggggh

Christmas 1992 or 1993:
Air Luci is on the last leg from Florida to CT. Approaching Atlantic City we're vectored seaward, south of New York to the eastern side of Long Island for the left turn over Long Island Sound.

50 miles off shore we start to pick up ice...rather quickly for my tastes in a plane lacking deice equip. Flight Watch informs that things are going downhill quickly. Atlantic City is closed to zero visibility. New Haven closed. Boston closed. Take your pick: Laguardia or JFK with 300 foot ceilings at both.

Air Luci heads for JFK. With the controller trying to get as many 500MPH birds on the ground as possible before things sock in, there's a bit of pressure on us to "Keep Your speed up to the [runway threshold] numbers." We do and break out of clouds and fog 300 feet above the runway, gear up; chop the power, throw the gear, drop the flaps and touch down at midfield....one of my best low approach landings ever.

Clear the runway.
"November Seven Mike Romeo, where will you park"
"7MR. We'll take the nearest FBO"
"7MR...there is no FBO here. This is JFK. All we have is the Port Authority on your left"

Well La Tee Da. Miami has Fixed Based Operators; Atlanta does; so does DFW, Sky Harbor in Phoenix and probably O'Hare. But I'm at "JFK". Park the plane, shut it down, get out, walk into the warm building with a smile.

"You can't park there"
"Why not?"
"We reserve that side for such-and-such"
"But there's tie down there"
"Yeah, but they're not your tie downs. Move it to the other side of the ramp."
"Look, I'm not gonna be here long. I just need some fuel and a few hours for the weather to lift and I'm on my way."
"Not my problem. Move the plane. By the way, we don't sell gas. We're the Port Authority"
"It's below freezing out there. These are the most cold blooded engines I've ever seen. If I try to start 'em hot, there's a good chance I'm only gonna kill the batteries. Can it wait 30 minutes?"
"Sir, move the aircraft."

Out to the plane. Discharge left side battery on restart attempt. Then the right.

Back to PA building.
"I'm gonna need a Ground Power Unit"
"Can't help you. We're the Port Authority"
"Who can help?"
"Dunno....unless you have an in with Delta"

It took 2 trips back to JFK and three days to finally get a commuter airline to haul a GPU and some gas over to N7MR for the trip out. Meantime, NYPA ran the ramp fees clock at something like (don't quote me on this, I'm a bit fuzzy) $35 per hour.

Guns? Least of my problems. Such is the nature of "emergency diversions". Get the picture?
:D
Rich
 
My plane has a gun which lives in the baggage hold. Never had anyone question me about guns. Never had a mechanic freak. Never be "directed to land" at any airport for "inspection". Then again, I don't haul any illegal, don't fly through Resrticed/Prohibited/TFR airspace, do anything to attract attention.
 
Well, the mechanic that I use for annuals is located about 35 miles from home plate. While we were discussing various issues about my plane (1961 M20B for the aircraft afficianatos out there) we drifted to guns. He pointed out a 2 foot gong target out near the airport fence :D , well away from the runway, and talked about how the locals will come up and do a little High Power shooting. We then headed off into SD pistols and CCW. The airport lounge has FLYING, PLANE & PILOT, AOPA PILOT, GUNS & AMMO, AMERICAN HANDGUNNER, NRA RIFLEMAN, etc. I wouldn't be supprised to find that one of the guys up there is a FFL and I could get an Annual Inspection, 100 HR, engine overhaul, Kimber Pro II or Remington 700 CDL shipped in at near cost. Talk about one-stop-shopping! :cool:
 
Years ago, I don't know about now, since Kansas is/was a "DRY" state, airliners flying over KS. had to suspend liquor sevice until no longer over KS.
 
Back
Top