Florida, Michigan....and Denver

7

73 Jock

New member
The DNC has stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegates at the Denver Convention. Here is a quick recap of how it happened:

from Gallup.com
The Democratic National Committee said it would refuse to seat a state's delegation at the convention if a state other than Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, or Nevada held its primary or caucus before Super Tuesday (Feb. 5). Florida and Michigan party leaders attempted to defy that order by proceeding to hold their primaries in January. The DNC is holding firm in its position, and now those two states are faced with the possibility of having no voice at the convention.
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Florida has 210 pledged, and 28 super delegates. Michigan has 156 pledged, and 25 super delegates. The DNC Convention web-site says this about their status: "The state of Florida/Michigan is subject to a 100% delegate reduction for violating National Party delegate selection rules."

Now that Hillary has stated that she intends to fight all the way to Denver, and in light of the Democrat Party's heavy emphasis on voter enfranchisement, does anyone think they will really disenfranchise these two highly populous states, and what would it mean for the convention?
 
OOoo. Nice thread idea. Those delegates and some super delegate MAY be what Hillary is thinking will get her the nomination.......and a riot in Denver BTW.

This could be very interesting. As it is said, never underestimate the Democrats ability to lose.
 
In so much as they see themselves as representatives of the powerless, leftists are quite fond of civil disturbance as political expression. I believe that older McGovern, Robert Kennedy Democrats view the 1968 Chicago convention as a rite of passage. Humphrey's subsequent loss to Nixon in an electoral landslide, certainly realigned the Democrat party to the left.

This August in Denver the potential for civil disturbance is sky-high. The unresolved issue of Florida/Michigan and the ultimate loss of one of the candidates will be viewed as disenfranchisement by a bitterly divided party. Particularly if Clinton prevails, the perceived injustice will arouse outrage.

The only answer appears to be a shared ticket, but the likelyhood of that will weaken with every primary Clinton wins now.
 
Doesn't really matter. If Clinton get's it, there's a ton of Obama supporters gonna scream she stole it. If Obama gets it, Bill and Hillary are gonna scream Obama stole it. :D
 
Don't forget that Howard Dean is trying to short circuit things by having the superdelegate's commit before the convention. I think in July. I would assume that no one will pay Dean any attention...which is exactly what he deserves.

Anyway, Lay in your supply of popcorn & beer. I am sure the Hillary/Obama convention show will no doubt have the highest TV ratings in history. I never thought the liberal Dem's would be so much fun to watch.:D
 
If Hillary goes into the convention with few delegates than Obama, and somehow emerges as the nominee, black people are going to tear up some real estate.
 
The anti-war "peace and justice" crowd at Re-Create 68 are already threatening violence at the DNC in Denver.

http://www.recreate68.org/

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/21/recreate-68-threatens-democrat-convention-in-denver/

Recreate ‘68 threatens Democrat convention in Denver
By Michelle Malkin • March 21, 2008 09:46 AM “When things blow up because the police have to enforce a permit that the Democrats got, don’t blame us for that.”

Remember that quote. Protest organizers from “Recreate ‘68″ are throwing a tantrum over the Democrat Party’s permit process. Will they ignore it as an idle threat? Or, keeping in mind the history of left-wing violence against law enforcement, will they take the nutballs seriously for once?
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Whatever happen to the democrats endless crying back in 2000 about letting every vote count? Well, count at least once, or twice, maybe three times.
 
Whatever happen to the democrats endless crying back in 2000 about letting every vote count? Well, count at least once, or twice, maybe three times.
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That was for an actual election, which involves the law and Constitution. This is just an internal party issue. Plus, back then what was at stake was whether any Democrat would win the White House, not simply who would get their nomination.

Now that Hillary has stated that she intends to fight all the way to Denver, and in light of the Democrat Party's heavy emphasis on voter enfranchisement, does anyone think they will really disenfranchise these two highly populous states, and what would it mean for the convention?
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I hope so. There were rules, these states chose to break them, there are consequences. The end. Probably seemed like a great idea at the time, when nobody figured the delegate count would really matter anyway (odds are the race would be over back on Super Tuesday)...now suddenly that punishment has actual teeth and they think that means it's unfair?

I can see seating their delegates, but only if they hold another primary/caucus. You can't simply go back and make an election that wasn't supposed to count for anything matter retroactively. The candidates didn't all get to campaign in those states, and IIRC Clinton was the only one with her name on the ballot in at least one of them.

Unfortunately for them, neither state (or rather, neither state's Democratic Party) has the money to hold another primary. Oh well.


As far as the severity of the punishment (compared to the RNC, which only stripped states of half their delegates) more and more I'm thinking it was perfectly reasonable. Most states would be glad to give up half their delegates in order to hold their primaries first, especially since (as mentioned) historically it doesn't come down to delegate counts anyway. It'd be more than worth the trade to have that kind of early influence. Stripping them of all their votes (and disallowing candidates from campaigning there) was the only way to make the decision to bump up a losing proposition...at least at the time.

I say screw 'em. I don't really look forward to having primaries start in September, so there need to be rules and those rules need to be followed. Guess now they know for next time. At least as long as the DNC doesn't cave and reward their behavior.
 
Lookin' forwards to the big showdown in Denver. I never actually watched a Democrat convention before. I think they should settle the matter in a cage fight....and I wouldn't put my money on Obama.
 
That was for an actual election, which involves the law and Constitution. This is just an internal party issue. Plus, back then what was at stake was whether any Democrat would win the White House, not simply who would get their nomination.
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Or, option 2, principles mean doo-doo when it comes to getting what they want and/or when it doesn't suit their agenda.
 
The Dems are really starting to get nervous. Both Pelosi and and Dean are crying that if Hilary doesn't quit the race she's just going to drive a wedge down the middle and guarantee the democrats won't win. Got a feeling that it's already gone to far. Still, I agree with every one else, it's better than watching Saturday Night Smackdown. Clinton the Killa vs. Hussien the Hitman. (Is that pollitically correct?) :D
 
Man I love it!

The last major election, they changed the rules in the end after votes are complete!

That didn't work so this time they change the rules while playing the game!:D


Who are the Dogs in a Dog Eat World?
 
Glen J said:
Both Pelosi and and Dean are crying that if Hilary doesn't quit the race she's just going to drive a wedge down the middle and guarantee the democrats won't win.
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Translation: If Obama is denied the nomination, the most extreme elements of the party will engage in civil disobedience so appalling, that the shocked moderates will hand the election to McCain.

Conversely, if Clinton is forced to step down her supporters will....why they'll....why they'll write VERY strongly worded letters!
 
Yet another angle to consider.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080401/pl_politico/9298

Her only hope of getting the key committee to vote out a “majority report” supporting her position rests on her ability to persuade an as-yet-undetermined number of the 25 members appointed to the committee by party Chairman Howard Dean to cast votes for her position.

The DNC’s Credentials Committee consists of 144 pledged members (Florida and Michigan are not included) plus the 25 party leaders and elected officials appointed by Dean. The 25 Dean appointees include a mix of Dean loyalists, Obama supporters and at least several individuals who have endorsed Clinton.

"If the formal process of seating a delegation cannot be resolved," a Clinton senior adviser said, "those 25 will be important."
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I sure hope that Knob Creek machine gun shoot doesn't fall on the Dem's convention days. I will have a hard time deciding which to watch.:D
 
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