I'm really in need of advice or some gimmick to help with a flinch problem. I've tried the ball and dummy rounds--works great until about 20 minutes and then I'm back to flinching. Dry firing doesn't help since I don't flinch when I dry fire. I'm almost beginning to think it's muscle memory and I will just have to compensate by shooting higher and to the left (I'm left-handed) after the first shot. BTW, when I don't flinch I'm dead-on target. Even with the flinch I'm always on the paper--low on the A zone or slightly below it.
Flinch problem
- Thread starter HowardK
- Start date
First things first: Are you using eye-and-hearing protection? Are you using enough hearing protection?
What size weapon are you using? Is it horsing you around? Do the grips fit comfortably?
If your eye and hearing protection is adequate, and the weapon isn't hurting you when you fire it, you may just need to go through the basics and fundamentals with a small calibre such as a .22 or even a pellet gun for a few weeks.
Beyond that, I couldn't tell you.
LawDog
What size weapon are you using? Is it horsing you around? Do the grips fit comfortably?
If your eye and hearing protection is adequate, and the weapon isn't hurting you when you fire it, you may just need to go through the basics and fundamentals with a small calibre such as a .22 or even a pellet gun for a few weeks.
Beyond that, I couldn't tell you.
LawDog
HowardK,
Flinch was my middle name when I first tried pistolcraft. An old friend and sage instructor gave me some good advice. LawDog has given you pretty close to the same.
My old friend told me, if I wanted to get any better with my big pistol, buy a .22 pistol model that was as close to the type of big bore pistol as could be found - buy at least 1000 rounds of 22 ammo - and don't shoot the big bore again until I had fired all 1000 rounds of .22! He cautioned that every round of .22 must be fired with purpose, no plinking! Approach it as seriously as possible and it will help. Bowling pins at 100 yards will really make you concentrate!
I still flinch sometimes, especially when I'm tired - and I still get the .22 out and practice, practice, practice...
Mikey
Flinch was my middle name when I first tried pistolcraft. An old friend and sage instructor gave me some good advice. LawDog has given you pretty close to the same.
My old friend told me, if I wanted to get any better with my big pistol, buy a .22 pistol model that was as close to the type of big bore pistol as could be found - buy at least 1000 rounds of 22 ammo - and don't shoot the big bore again until I had fired all 1000 rounds of .22! He cautioned that every round of .22 must be fired with purpose, no plinking! Approach it as seriously as possible and it will help. Bowling pins at 100 yards will really make you concentrate!
I still flinch sometimes, especially when I'm tired - and I still get the .22 out and practice, practice, practice...
Mikey
Fourdiamonds
New member
everybody has a natural slight flinch. If its out of control then Practice, Practice, Practice!!!!
------------------
From my cold dead hands.
------------------
From my cold dead hands.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Practice
Practice
Practice
.22 pistols work too.
Fire a lot of them, then build up. Fire you gun with low powered loads, then build up again to mediaum loadings and then all the way up to youe defensive ammo of choice.
And
again
Practice...
------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Practice
Practice
.22 pistols work too.
Fire a lot of them, then build up. Fire you gun with low powered loads, then build up again to mediaum loadings and then all the way up to youe defensive ammo of choice.
And
again
Practice...
------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Funny nobody's mentioned this, yet: if you're shooting a .45 caliber pistol you may want to consider a .40 or even (gasp!) a 9mm. If you feel safe with a 9mm then then why torture yourself w/ recoil that may make you miss?
OTOH, if 9mm doesn't make you feel safe (despite that fact that many folks with a lot of experience say anything from 9mm on up is adequate for self defense) then, of course, it ain't an option!
------------------
------------------
Great daily commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective:
http://www.str.org/cgi-local/daily_commentary.pl
OTOH, if 9mm doesn't make you feel safe (despite that fact that many folks with a lot of experience say anything from 9mm on up is adequate for self defense) then, of course, it ain't an option!
------------------
------------------
Great daily commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective:
http://www.str.org/cgi-local/daily_commentary.pl
ShooterDave
New member
What I've always wanted to know is if some sort of a "controlled flinch" isn't par for the course if you're shooting rapidly? Seems like a well-timed pull of the gun (if your right handed) down and to the left immediatly after firing is necessary for a rapid follow up shot.
The trick seems to be in not anticipating the shot, but in anticipating your reaction to it. I move my 1911 down and to right whenever I put a snap cap in the mag--but I also hit the point of aim of the sights even out at 20 yards, so I am pretty confident that my sights aren't off just enough to compensat for my "flinch."
What do you think would happen if you put a snap cap in a IPSC shooter's gun?
The trick seems to be in not anticipating the shot, but in anticipating your reaction to it. I move my 1911 down and to right whenever I put a snap cap in the mag--but I also hit the point of aim of the sights even out at 20 yards, so I am pretty confident that my sights aren't off just enough to compensat for my "flinch."
What do you think would happen if you put a snap cap in a IPSC shooter's gun?
I think it's kinda like fishing...the average guy gets a "backlash" when casting poorly - but the tournament fisherman gets "professional overrun"! 
The average shooter "flinches" and gets a poor result on the target. Us pro's just call that "recoil management", assuming we hit the target...
Mikey
The average shooter "flinches" and gets a poor result on the target. Us pro's just call that "recoil management", assuming we hit the target...
Mikey
First of all, make sure the pistol is properly fitted to your hand. You didn't mention what you are shooting, but John Lawson has a good comment on the curved vs flat housing for the 1911, which might be of interest. This goes with proper alignment of the pistol in the hand so that the big muscles and torso absorb the shock in proper line with the with longitudinal axis of the slide. Since not everyone is put together exactly alike, you may have to play with the grips a little and the loads you are shooting. Even then, you might just be shooting the wrong pistol for your body type. Its the little muscles that are likely to be abused, and remember that torture, and will automatically begin to bring the big muscles into play to avoid this strain. Big guys with big muscles can sometimes overcome this with brut strength and not feel the stress as much (pain is good! It reminds you that you are still alive! ), but the average persons body will start to feel it with strained muscles and aching joints. Poor technique will only make it worse. Generally speaking it is the little muscles that react to the strain first, causing you to jerk the trigger rather then squeeze. I don't know how many rounds you are shooting in 20 minutes. If you are going through 200 rnds in 20 mins.,that would be one thing. If you are going through 20, that would be another. If you are practicing for self-defense, that would be one thing. If you are shooting competively, that would be another. Time frame in conjunction with the number of rounds shot is important. You might try using a pistol with a stronger trigger pull then your own, and then go back to yours and then see if that makes a difference. It does for me. Limit the number of rounds shot. Do not continue to shoot, if you feel any strain or pain! Stop when you reach the limit you set for yourself. Work up to it. Once the small muscles have learned, they have to be untaught that it not painful to shoot. The .22 method works great, unless you go out to the range and restrain those muscles again through poor technique/poorly fitted pistol and excessive range sessions. Pratice, practice, practice is not the solution.(sorry George. got to disagree here)Proper pratice with a purpose with a well defined goal is. Golf and shooting have a lot in common. They are 90% mental, and 10% physical. I guess that is why I like them both. The proper preparation and mind set, combined with the proper equipment will always make for an enjoyable experience. 18 hole in one day with my clubs will result in a good score. 54 holes in one day regardless of the clubs or cart would be torture and lousy scores, and I assure 18 the next would not be fun either!
[This message has been edited by ak9 (edited January 14, 2000).]
), but the average persons body will start to feel it with strained muscles and aching joints. Poor technique will only make it worse. Generally speaking it is the little muscles that react to the strain first, causing you to jerk the trigger rather then squeeze. I don't know how many rounds you are shooting in 20 minutes. If you are going through 200 rnds in 20 mins.,that would be one thing. If you are going through 20, that would be another. If you are practicing for self-defense, that would be one thing. If you are shooting competively, that would be another. Time frame in conjunction with the number of rounds shot is important. You might try using a pistol with a stronger trigger pull then your own, and then go back to yours and then see if that makes a difference. It does for me. Limit the number of rounds shot. Do not continue to shoot, if you feel any strain or pain! Stop when you reach the limit you set for yourself. Work up to it. Once the small muscles have learned, they have to be untaught that it not painful to shoot. The .22 method works great, unless you go out to the range and restrain those muscles again through poor technique/poorly fitted pistol and excessive range sessions. Pratice, practice, practice is not the solution.(sorry George. got to disagree here)Proper pratice with a purpose with a well defined goal is. Golf and shooting have a lot in common. They are 90% mental, and 10% physical. I guess that is why I like them both. The proper preparation and mind set, combined with the proper equipment will always make for an enjoyable experience. 18 hole in one day with my clubs will result in a good score. 54 holes in one day regardless of the clubs or cart would be torture and lousy scores, and I assure 18 the next would not be fun either![This message has been edited by ak9 (edited January 14, 2000).]
Will Beararms
New member
Howard:
I shoot the 9mm because I don't flinch---- ever. I have tried to make myself flinch with the Nine. Usually, usually.....I don't flich with a .45ACP or .40SW but I have in the past when shooting in situations that are less than perfect. I always flinch on the first shot with a tradional double action .45ACP if the gun has a lightweight polymer or aluminum frame. I don't even bobble with a full-sized, all steel 1911 variant.
I for one avoid light-framed guns because of the flinch factor. I have found in my case that is not the recoil of the light-framed pistol that gets me but rather the type of recoil.
Glock 22's and Sig P220's in my hands carry too much muzzle flip for my liking. Glocks and Sigs are great but they are not good for me if the caliber selection is above 9mm. The exception to this is the P 239 Sig in .40SW which has a very top-heavy stainless steel slide.
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
I shoot the 9mm because I don't flinch---- ever. I have tried to make myself flinch with the Nine. Usually, usually.....I don't flich with a .45ACP or .40SW but I have in the past when shooting in situations that are less than perfect. I always flinch on the first shot with a tradional double action .45ACP if the gun has a lightweight polymer or aluminum frame. I don't even bobble with a full-sized, all steel 1911 variant.
I for one avoid light-framed guns because of the flinch factor. I have found in my case that is not the recoil of the light-framed pistol that gets me but rather the type of recoil.
Glock 22's and Sig P220's in my hands carry too much muzzle flip for my liking. Glocks and Sigs are great but they are not good for me if the caliber selection is above 9mm. The exception to this is the P 239 Sig in .40SW which has a very top-heavy stainless steel slide.
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
Howard, try this ( with an empty weapon--check twice ) While you are standing very close to a wall with the front of the
pistol about 1/2" from the wall; dry fire the weapon. Being up close to a structure will give you instant feedback and will tell you
if the flinch is from recoil or a central nervous system response to anticipated recoil. I make some of my student's visualize a snake staring them in the face and the only way they can avoid being bitten is to squeeze
the trigger ( not your whole hand just the trigger ) with enough precision not to jerk
the trigger. Amazing how this little game cures a trigger jerk. Putting an empty casing
on the top strap (frame ) of your weapon
and pulling trigger with enough precision
to keep the casing from falling works also.
Also shooting very small targets at close ranges ( 4yds ) will help greatly. It's all about positive feedback which you can't get from shooting at 25yds.
pistol about 1/2" from the wall; dry fire the weapon. Being up close to a structure will give you instant feedback and will tell you
if the flinch is from recoil or a central nervous system response to anticipated recoil. I make some of my student's visualize a snake staring them in the face and the only way they can avoid being bitten is to squeeze
the trigger ( not your whole hand just the trigger ) with enough precision not to jerk
the trigger. Amazing how this little game cures a trigger jerk. Putting an empty casing
on the top strap (frame ) of your weapon
and pulling trigger with enough precision
to keep the casing from falling works also.
Also shooting very small targets at close ranges ( 4yds ) will help greatly. It's all about positive feedback which you can't get from shooting at 25yds.
I don't think I flinch. I see the flames come out of the barrel and ejection port and watch the muzzle come down for the next shot. We could always make a video tape to check, however!
I think that I expect the recoil, blast, whatever as a natural part of the shooting experience, therefore the sensations are, if not pleasurable, at least tolerable. I would suggest you learn to consider recoil as natural a part of shooting as, well, orgasm as a part of $ex! It works for me! HTH
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
I think that I expect the recoil, blast, whatever as a natural part of the shooting experience, therefore the sensations are, if not pleasurable, at least tolerable. I would suggest you learn to consider recoil as natural a part of shooting as, well, orgasm as a part of $ex! It works for me! HTH
------------------
Be mentally deliberate but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle Wyatt Earp
"It is error alone that needs government support; truth can stand by itself." Tom Jefferson
If you have to shoot a man, shoot him in the guts, it may not kill him... sometimes they die slow, but it'll paralyze his brain and arm and the fight is all but over Wild Bill Hickok
Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up.
45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel! BigG
Dry fire, at a target, repeatedly, for tens of thousands of repetitions.
Constantly.
Continuously.
Carefully.
Then place a cartridge, standing straight up, behind the front sight, and repeat dry firing until it never falls off.
Then dry fire some more.
------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
Constantly.
Continuously.
Carefully.
Then place a cartridge, standing straight up, behind the front sight, and repeat dry firing until it never falls off.
Then dry fire some more.
------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"