Flawed "Rugerisms"

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warbirdlover

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Spent some time talking to the gunsmith that's going to work on my Ruger/Boyds stocked pillar bedding/glass bedding job for me at Gander Mountain. Based on all the stuff said in here I asked him...

When you tighten up the action screws do you have to tighten the angled, recoil lug screw first, THEN the others?
Answer was "nope, you go back and forth and evenly tighten them up"

Do Rugers need to have pressure on the barrel to shoot best or can you free float them?
Answer was "we free float them for best results"

Are Rugers harder to bed then other rifles?
Answer was "not if you know how to do it"

I'm feeling really good about my bedding and freefloating job now.... :)

Forgot to mention. When you look up gunsmith in the dictionary there's a picture of this guy next to the print. :D Big, ready-to-retire, long bearded machinist type that looks like he's been doing this stuff since he was four years old. Just made you want him to work on all your guns just from looking at him! Nice guy too.
 
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If what your gunsmith guy does works for him, hey, great!

But I bought a NIB 77 in 1973, back when the angled bolt was newish, if not new. It was new to me, anyway. The little booklet of instructions which came with the rifle said to tighten the front screw first.

Life is just full of little contradictions. :D
 
Well I'll be. I've got to take a look at my book from the 80's..... :confused:

Yup. You're right Art. And following this post is the description in the manual.
 
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I'll guarantee you that my M77 shoots better with a little pressure on the front of the barrel. I know. I tried it both ways.

Here are Ruger instructions for reassembly...

https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/m77MarkII.pdf

4. To replace the stock:
a. Install magazine box on receiver.
b. Place barrel-action assembly – with magazine box in place – into stock.
c. Replace trigger guard and loosely install screws.
d. Install floorplate hinge assembly and firmly tighten screw. (This screw is
angled and draws the barrel-action assembly into the bedding surface of the
stock.)
e. Tighten the two trigger guard screws as follows: Do not tighten one screw
all the way and then tighten the other. Instead, alternately tighten each one –
a partial turn at a time – so that the screws will be tightened equally until both
are snugly tightened.
 
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Are Rugers harder to bed then other rifles?
Answer was "not if you know how to do it"
Click to expand...

I think the "not if you know how to do it" is the most important part. Rugers are "different" in how they are bedded and what works well on a Remington, etc, may not be the best way to do it with a Ruger. Hopefully the guy who worked on it knows what he is doing and it starts shooting straight for you.
 
After the work's all done, shoot it. Then, back off a smidgen on the screws, tighten the angled screw and then do the other tightening. Shoot it again. Compare group size. Go with whichever shoots best.

"One test is worth 1,000 expert opinions."
 
Old Winchester model 70's had the barrel so tight in the stock that you would have thought that they grew a tree around the barrel. Most shot really well (For the ammo available at the time) and some did not. I don't think you can put gun accuracy in manufacturer's groups. Guns are kind of individual items. I disassembled a Ruger Ultra-lite bought in the 80's just to clean out the grease. In the follower spring (Full of grease) I found a triangular ceramic stone about 3/4 diameter. Had I not worked in machine shops off and on I would have never guessed what it was. Even with mass production, rifles still have individual qualities/flaws.
 
All of the smith's statements are a matter of opinion.

The action screw tightening sequence has been covered (and tightening the angled screw first is logical, anyway).

Free-floating? ...That's like asking a chef if Lemon Meringue Pie is better than Key Lime Pie. The answer changes, depending on what's in season, and what they prefer. Not only is every rifle different, but every gunsmith is different.

Are Rugers harder to bed then other rifles?
Answer was "not if you know how to do it"
Click to expand...
I agree, 100%.
It's not harder. It's just different.
 
Over 30 years ago I glass-bedded the action, recoil lug, and about 2 1/2" under the chamber. I tried a pressure point under the barrel just ahead of the sling screw, but evenutally I free-floated the barrel on my Ruger 77. Because the trigger pull weight and over-travel could not be adjusted, I added a trigger shoe. ALWAYS tightened the angled screw first. Accuracy of the rifle is excellent, especially for coyotes, pronghorns and mule deer - all with handloads tuned for the rifle. I agree, glass-bedding a Ruger is not harder, just different.
 
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Are Rugers harder to bed then other rifles?
Answer was "not if you know how to do it"
Click to expand...

Well maybe I don't know how to do it. I bedded one Ruger M77 Tactical, my rifle, and it was more difficult because drilling the angled front screw took a lot of playing with the drill press to get the angle right.

Then I had to build two columns of epoxy compound to create the pillars.

I have bedded a number of Mauser type hunting rifles without creating pillars.

I consider it more difficult than bedding a M70, a M700 and M98's.

1ReducedFrontactionscrewdrillingat3.jpg


6ReducedFrontactionscrewBeforeRouti.jpg


9ReducedFrontactionscrewpillarroute.jpg
 
So Joe the Gander Zmountain gunsmith is now the Ruger expert? I would question a gunsmith who works "for the man" and needs the man's name to show his worth.

I would have much more faith in what a poster said here if he had the gun and targets to prove it.

That said, few of us posters have the experience to know it all. I can say for sure my dad had a Ruger which fit the stock ok. With a pressure pad, it shot 1.5" groups and changing bullets caused the group to move 5". We tried free floating it and it became a 2.5" gun. I think our real next steps were to bed and repressure the barrel. Well, dad said no, so I will never know!
 
Hmmm! Taking a good shooting rifle that has a pressure point and then removing that pressure point to result in a less good shooting rifle doesn't actually mean that the rifle shoots worse with a floated barrel. All it means is that the rifle shoots worse with that load and a floated barrel. I would expect to have to work up new loads, and only if those new loads didn't get the accuracy to as-good or better than when I had the pressure point under the barrel would I say that the rifle shot worse free floated. You start changing things up and you may no longer have a rifle that you 'know'.
 
The gunsmith wasn't preaching. He was just giving me his answers to my questions, right or wrong. He seemed like a real nice guy and very few gunsmiths I've known in my lifetime have ever succeeded on their own. Most worked for large companies. My former neighbor (years ago) worked for that company in Racine that is noted for making .22 barrels that fit inside shotgun(?) barrels. Can't remember the name.

Remembered... Kolar arms.

http://www.kolararms.com/
 
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