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Flag Burning, part deux
- Thread starter DC
- Start date
From: Ivan6-28-99 546 PM EDT Frank, you have answered the question concerning the 2 American Flags. This subject could get really tricky. Could one say that citizens of DC and Puerto Rico are the only ones under that gold fringed flag? It is a Federal Flagand represents citizens of the Federal enclaves of DC and Puerto Rico. The rest of us ,as citizens of the 50 United States of America, will honor the flag that represents the 50 Republics of this united nation. The problem is that we see this gold fringed flag everywhere: in courts,courtyards, and outside Macdonalds. To me ,it looks like this gold fringed flag belongs in DC and in Puerto Rico! The real United States of America Flag has almost disappeared. And, the Republic has also nearly disappeared.
I was thinking of printing up a bunch of stationery, blank on one side, full color flag on the other. Then using it to write letters to all of the idiot congresscritters who voted for the flag amendment. I bet they wouldn't hesitate a second before crumpling it up and tossing it.
Here's an interesting tidbit concerning flag-burning: China, Iran and Cuba have all made desecration of their flag a crime.
Wow, that's heady company! I feel more free already.
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"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
Wow, that's heady company! I feel more free already.
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"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
Prichard, Please don't burn an American flag in disrespect where I can see you doing it.
I have done some unplesant things in my life for The United States of America, some things I did not agree with but I did them for our country.
I will not be vague. You may fly my flag upside down as a symbol of distress but do not disrespect it. The flag is the symbol of our country which many have fought and died for. I do not intend to be hostile in this dialogue I am just telling everyone my feelings on this matter.
Best regards,
Hank
I have done some unplesant things in my life for The United States of America, some things I did not agree with but I did them for our country.
I will not be vague. You may fly my flag upside down as a symbol of distress but do not disrespect it. The flag is the symbol of our country which many have fought and died for. I do not intend to be hostile in this dialogue I am just telling everyone my feelings on this matter.
Best regards,
Hank
To some, not allowing its burning by a law or by unprovoked physical violence is just as disrespectful to the Constitution as the burning of Flag is to you. And the Constitution is much more important than a symbolic piece of cloth.
PS
Feel free to burn your own copies of the Constitution.
PS
Feel free to burn your own copies of the Constitution.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Hank-
Class act! Thanks for the circumspection.
Rich
Class act! Thanks for the circumspection.
Rich
This is not directed at any particular individual, nor is it intended to be a flame. I respect the people who post here more than I do at any other online forum, and do not wish to be considered any more of an a**hole than I already am.
That being said, I find in reading this thread that the people who want to see flag desecration criminalized are those with the strongest emotional attachment to the flag, most often through military service. I am grateful for the service of all who have served this nation honorably, especially for those who died in protecting my freedoms. However, arguing with emotions is precisely what the anti-gunners do, as we all so often decry. It is no different for us to use the same tactic, merely because we believe that we are in the right on a particular issue. We must use logic, and level-headed clear thinking, even when a subject that we hold close to our hearts arises; for if we succumb to the urge to rail at our opponents, to shout epithets instead of pointing out illogic and fallacies, then we have become what we dislike most of all: Rosie.
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"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
That being said, I find in reading this thread that the people who want to see flag desecration criminalized are those with the strongest emotional attachment to the flag, most often through military service. I am grateful for the service of all who have served this nation honorably, especially for those who died in protecting my freedoms. However, arguing with emotions is precisely what the anti-gunners do, as we all so often decry. It is no different for us to use the same tactic, merely because we believe that we are in the right on a particular issue. We must use logic, and level-headed clear thinking, even when a subject that we hold close to our hearts arises; for if we succumb to the urge to rail at our opponents, to shout epithets instead of pointing out illogic and fallacies, then we have become what we dislike most of all: Rosie.
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"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
Joe Portale
New member
This topic has caused me great internal debat. On one hand, one of the things that makes America great is her ability to absorb insults like flag burning. This is the one and only country that allows for political freedom of speech. If we start to outlaw facets of the freedom of speech, we will soon loose them all. (Jeez, aren't we under seige enough already?)
On the other hand, as a vet, the son of a vet and the grandson of a vet, I can't help but feel a great insult when I see a bunch of mutants burning the flag. Emotionally, I see it as an insult to me, my father, uncles and all the others who stood up to be counted.
If the burning of a flag is a TRUE political statemnent, then the right must be protected.
Yet, I believe that those who burn the flag do not have the mental capacity to formulate an intelligent political aurguments, so they resort to theatrics. The burning of the flag is meant as an insult and to cause mental and emotional hurt to the citizens of this nation. Thereby, the act of flag burning becomes a hate crime. Therefore I reserve the right to make a political/ethical statement of my own and punch them square in the mouth. (done it once, and may have to do it again.)
Joe
Tucson, Arizona Territory
On the other hand, as a vet, the son of a vet and the grandson of a vet, I can't help but feel a great insult when I see a bunch of mutants burning the flag. Emotionally, I see it as an insult to me, my father, uncles and all the others who stood up to be counted.
If the burning of a flag is a TRUE political statemnent, then the right must be protected.
Yet, I believe that those who burn the flag do not have the mental capacity to formulate an intelligent political aurguments, so they resort to theatrics. The burning of the flag is meant as an insult and to cause mental and emotional hurt to the citizens of this nation. Thereby, the act of flag burning becomes a hate crime. Therefore I reserve the right to make a political/ethical statement of my own and punch them square in the mouth. (done it once, and may have to do it again.)
Joe
Tucson, Arizona Territory
I think we can all agree that burning the flag is an offensive and disrespectful thing to do. On the other hand, This country was founded and is still based on the freedom to do things that may be offensive. Most of the people here seem to understand the tendency of government to take freedom away gradually. Outlawing the burning of a symbol, however beloved, is as dangerous a precedent to set as was the original Gun Control Act was. If we outlaw flag burning, what symbol do we protect next, The Presidency? Picture a country where you can't be disrespectfull to the state...Wanna live there? The point is that we are part of a society based on freedom. That is what makes the American Flag and what it stands for something I have been willing to risk my life to protect. If we destroy the freedoms behind that, then we destroy what makes this a country worth fighting for. In my humble opinion, being offended by the occaisional ingratefull moron is a small price to pay for what freedoms we have left. Lets not lose any more of them.
Frank Haertlein
Moderator
OK, guys. I got this one from another BBS and thought it good enough to share with you. Wish I'd have thought to put it this way. The guy is right and I want to see some of you brainy one's dispute this! Come on Pritchard let's here what you have to say about this. Here goes.....................
"I have to side with the people who feel that flag burning is not a constitutional right. The main purpose of the first amendment is to protect political speech. All speech, or actions, are not protected. The courts have ruled that certain speech or action that inflames can be limited if other ways are available to express that opinion. One example of this is cross burning. Every State outlaws cross burning and it has been upheld in the courts because there are other ways of expressing the opinion that cross burning represents.
Actually, its unfortunate that all actions are not protected as political speech. If so, I could piss on Bill Clinton's leg as a way to express my feelings for his administration."
I got to hand it to him. He put it pretty well! Har! Har! Har!
[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited June 30, 1999).]
"I have to side with the people who feel that flag burning is not a constitutional right. The main purpose of the first amendment is to protect political speech. All speech, or actions, are not protected. The courts have ruled that certain speech or action that inflames can be limited if other ways are available to express that opinion. One example of this is cross burning. Every State outlaws cross burning and it has been upheld in the courts because there are other ways of expressing the opinion that cross burning represents.
Actually, its unfortunate that all actions are not protected as political speech. If so, I could piss on Bill Clinton's leg as a way to express my feelings for his administration."
I got to hand it to him. He put it pretty well! Har! Har! Har!
[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited June 30, 1999).]
Yeah Frank...
so by your criteria, its not protected as free speech so let's amend the Constitution to make it illegal.
We are talking the Constitution, not just a law. But, like I said before...the gun grabbers think they are justified too. Both of you just want to control others instead of dealing with it yourself, cut from the same cloth.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
so by your criteria, its not protected as free speech so let's amend the Constitution to make it illegal.
We are talking the Constitution, not just a law. But, like I said before...the gun grabbers think they are justified too. Both of you just want to control others instead of dealing with it yourself, cut from the same cloth.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"