(FL)More Trigger-Lock Lunacy
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>P. B. County expected to pass gun trigger-lock law
By Marc Caputo, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 13, 2000
WEST PALM BEACH -- A law requiring gun owners to store their firearms with trigger locks is heading to Palm Beach County.
Commissioner Burt Aaronson wants to copy the city of South Miami and pass such an ordinance, now that State Attorney General Bob Butterworth issued an opinion Tuesday saying it wouldn't violate state law.
Aaronson wants it to apply throughout Palm Beach County, including its cities and towns. Violators could face fines of up to $500.
Florida law prohibits local governments from regulating most aspects of firearms ownership and possession. But it's silent on regulations for storing guns, Butterworth said. His opinion addressed South Miami's requirement that people store their guns with locks if children are present.
As Miami-Dade County considers a similar law, Aaronson wonders if Palm Beach County should take it a step further. He wants to require all gun owners to safeguard their weapons with a lock -- even if they don't have children around.
"You never know when kids will come over," Aaronson said. Aaronson's proposal will likely pass unanimously when it comes before commissioners in the coming weeks according to interviews Wednesday with commissioners and their aides.
"You'd have to be a caveman not to support this," said Commissioner Tony Masilotti.
Still, the law has its critics. George Russum, a member of the Second Amendment Coalition of Florida, said it's a feel-good measure that will only endanger people.
"Imagine fidgeting around with a trigger lock when someone's in your house threatening your family," Russum said. "It basically makes your gun a paperweight."
On top of that, Russum said, many trigger locks can be broken off with a screwdriver.
Russum said the lock wouldn't have prevented the death of teacher Barry Grunow on May 26 when his 13-year-old student, Nathaniel Brazill, shot and killed him with a stolen hand gun.
Aaronson said he'd been considering gun-control laws before the Grunow shooting.
In September, Palm Beach County extended the waiting period for gun purchases from three to five days. Commissioners also broadened the law to include all firearms, including rifles, shotguns, handguns and even collectibles. It is the strictest law of its kind in Florida.
South Miami was also considering its law before the Grunow shooting. Its law was passed in June. It remains the only Florida municipality with the requirement on the books, said City Attorney Earl Gallop.
"This isn't designed to be a deterrent," Gallop said. "Just look around. There's loads of laws about guns and you can't pick up the paper without seeing a story about another kid getting shot."
The South Miami law, instead, is part of a public relations campaign that seeks to make people aware of the importance of locking up guns, Gallop said. The city is putting up billboards saying "Lock 'em" and plans to hand out trigger locks in August.
Still, the law does have teeth. Violators are fined $250 for the first offense and $500 for additional infractions. Gallop said it is virtually impossible for police to enforce the law in the same way that they crack down on bad drivers.
State Sen. John Grant, a Tampa Republican, says the trigger-lock law violates a 1987 state law he championed. Called the Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act, it gives the state the sole authority to regulate "the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation" of firearms.
Grant wrote Butterworth last month, saying the law clearly prohibits local governments from interfering in the Second Amendment right to bear arms.
Butterworth responded that the law is silent on gun storage. He also said South Miami's law doesn't violate anyone's right to own or use guns.
Noting Butterworth's approval, Palm Beach County Attorney Denise Dytrych said that if the county drafts its own trigger-lock law, it will closely imitate South Miami's.
"We'd pretty much go with the exact same thing," Dytrych said. "It's a horrendous issue. You've got the Brazill shooting and all of that and you wonder what could be different around here."
marc_caputo@pbpost.com [/quote]
By Marc Caputo, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 13, 2000
WEST PALM BEACH -- A law requiring gun owners to store their firearms with trigger locks is heading to Palm Beach County.
Commissioner Burt Aaronson wants to copy the city of South Miami and pass such an ordinance, now that State Attorney General Bob Butterworth issued an opinion Tuesday saying it wouldn't violate state law.
Aaronson wants it to apply throughout Palm Beach County, including its cities and towns. Violators could face fines of up to $500.
Florida law prohibits local governments from regulating most aspects of firearms ownership and possession. But it's silent on regulations for storing guns, Butterworth said. His opinion addressed South Miami's requirement that people store their guns with locks if children are present.
As Miami-Dade County considers a similar law, Aaronson wonders if Palm Beach County should take it a step further. He wants to require all gun owners to safeguard their weapons with a lock -- even if they don't have children around.
"You never know when kids will come over," Aaronson said. Aaronson's proposal will likely pass unanimously when it comes before commissioners in the coming weeks according to interviews Wednesday with commissioners and their aides.
"You'd have to be a caveman not to support this," said Commissioner Tony Masilotti.
Still, the law has its critics. George Russum, a member of the Second Amendment Coalition of Florida, said it's a feel-good measure that will only endanger people.
"Imagine fidgeting around with a trigger lock when someone's in your house threatening your family," Russum said. "It basically makes your gun a paperweight."
On top of that, Russum said, many trigger locks can be broken off with a screwdriver.
Russum said the lock wouldn't have prevented the death of teacher Barry Grunow on May 26 when his 13-year-old student, Nathaniel Brazill, shot and killed him with a stolen hand gun.
Aaronson said he'd been considering gun-control laws before the Grunow shooting.
In September, Palm Beach County extended the waiting period for gun purchases from three to five days. Commissioners also broadened the law to include all firearms, including rifles, shotguns, handguns and even collectibles. It is the strictest law of its kind in Florida.
South Miami was also considering its law before the Grunow shooting. Its law was passed in June. It remains the only Florida municipality with the requirement on the books, said City Attorney Earl Gallop.
"This isn't designed to be a deterrent," Gallop said. "Just look around. There's loads of laws about guns and you can't pick up the paper without seeing a story about another kid getting shot."
The South Miami law, instead, is part of a public relations campaign that seeks to make people aware of the importance of locking up guns, Gallop said. The city is putting up billboards saying "Lock 'em" and plans to hand out trigger locks in August.
Still, the law does have teeth. Violators are fined $250 for the first offense and $500 for additional infractions. Gallop said it is virtually impossible for police to enforce the law in the same way that they crack down on bad drivers.
State Sen. John Grant, a Tampa Republican, says the trigger-lock law violates a 1987 state law he championed. Called the Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act, it gives the state the sole authority to regulate "the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation" of firearms.
Grant wrote Butterworth last month, saying the law clearly prohibits local governments from interfering in the Second Amendment right to bear arms.
Butterworth responded that the law is silent on gun storage. He also said South Miami's law doesn't violate anyone's right to own or use guns.
Noting Butterworth's approval, Palm Beach County Attorney Denise Dytrych said that if the county drafts its own trigger-lock law, it will closely imitate South Miami's.
"We'd pretty much go with the exact same thing," Dytrych said. "It's a horrendous issue. You've got the Brazill shooting and all of that and you wonder what could be different around here."
marc_caputo@pbpost.com [/quote]
This is a case of PC at it's worse. Florida started (or was one of the first to start) the great experiment of "legal" Concealed Carry. They passed the "horror story" test of not becoming the Gunshine State as told by the anti's. Crime actually started to go down until the criminals decided that tourist were better targets then residents. Now, the world is going "PC". Everyone is hopping onto the "band wagon" to be more PC. They are turning down the wrong road because everyone else is turning down that road. Follow the leader instead of being a leader, which they started out being. Unfortunatly, more people are "looking" at kalifornia, new york and florida as being the "moral and values" capital of the States. If it's good enough for them, then it must be good enough for us. The media and "dreaming" sheeple think that their State is still in the dark ages compared to the "great States". Like they (these States) are the peer group that they must keep up with to be considered "cool" and "with it" (sorry for the 70's/80's terms, shows what era I grew up with). Many States have the right idea but aren't considered main stream or "cool" (Vermont comes to mind) so they and their policies are ignored. Sometimes small counties come up with a good idea (Kennesaw GA), with crime rates actually going down because of it, but to others they aren't "cool" enough to model after. This is the reason that America will be destroyed, the same as Rome and other great civilizations before them, it will be destroyed from within, like a PC cancer eating it's way inside out. Too many cells (people) following and allowing the abnormal cells (the cancer = politicians/mentioned States) to take over and control the whole body (America). Just my $2 peso worth.
USP45usp
USP45usp
Jeff Thomas
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
South Miami was also considering its law before the Grunow shooting. Its law was passed in June. It remains the only Florida municipality with the requirement on the books, said City Attorney Earl Gallop.
"This isn't designed to be a deterrent," Gallop said. "Just look around. There's loads of laws about guns and you can't pick up the paper without seeing a story about another kid getting shot."
The South Miami law, instead, is part of a public relations campaign that seeks to make people aware of the importance of locking up guns, Gallop said. The city is putting up billboards saying "Lock 'em" and plans to hand out trigger locks in August.
[/quote]
Friends, this is a bad trend in this country ... passing laws in order to direct public attention to a perceived problem, and yet having full knowledge the laws do nothing to solve the problem.
We've seen the same with Shannon's Law in Arizona. A feel-good piece of state legislation that ostensibly make 'shooting into the air' a felony ... even though reckless endangerment with a firearm was already a felony. As far as we can tell, the reason for the legislation was the same - to draw attention to the problem.
IMHO, it is absolutely idiotic to be passing laws as part of a 'public relations' campaign. And people wonder why some folks have so little respect for the law? Wow.
Regards from AZ
South Miami was also considering its law before the Grunow shooting. Its law was passed in June. It remains the only Florida municipality with the requirement on the books, said City Attorney Earl Gallop.
"This isn't designed to be a deterrent," Gallop said. "Just look around. There's loads of laws about guns and you can't pick up the paper without seeing a story about another kid getting shot."
The South Miami law, instead, is part of a public relations campaign that seeks to make people aware of the importance of locking up guns, Gallop said. The city is putting up billboards saying "Lock 'em" and plans to hand out trigger locks in August.
[/quote]
Friends, this is a bad trend in this country ... passing laws in order to direct public attention to a perceived problem, and yet having full knowledge the laws do nothing to solve the problem.
We've seen the same with Shannon's Law in Arizona. A feel-good piece of state legislation that ostensibly make 'shooting into the air' a felony ... even though reckless endangerment with a firearm was already a felony. As far as we can tell, the reason for the legislation was the same - to draw attention to the problem.
IMHO, it is absolutely idiotic to be passing laws as part of a 'public relations' campaign. And people wonder why some folks have so little respect for the law? Wow.
Regards from AZ
RepublicThunderbolt
New member
An update on this proposal and more perniciousness to come can be found at County set to fashion trigger-lock ordinance.
Welcome to the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.
This has been law in the PRC for years. The lock makers devised a solution: combination trigger locks. Takes less than 10 seconds to unlock. Of course, the intruder may kill you during those 10 seconds, but hey! If it helps Hillary get elected, then your life was lost in a good cause.
WHY, oh WHY, hasn't someone sued a state or town for the death of someone who couldn't defend themselves with a gun they'd been denied??
This has been law in the PRC for years. The lock makers devised a solution: combination trigger locks. Takes less than 10 seconds to unlock. Of course, the intruder may kill you during those 10 seconds, but hey! If it helps Hillary get elected, then your life was lost in a good cause.
WHY, oh WHY, hasn't someone sued a state or town for the death of someone who couldn't defend themselves with a gun they'd been denied??
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woodit: ... WHY, oh WHY, hasn't someone sued a state or town for the death of someone who couldn't defend themselves with a gun they'd been denied??[/quote]This is something that I have been saying for a while on TFL. Where are the lawyers. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of families who have lost a loved one to violence in communities where it was illegal to either own or carry a firearm.
It seems pretty simple to me. Either you ensure my safety around the clock and if you can't do that, then don't limit and restrict my ability to protect myself and my loved ones.
It seems pretty simple to me. Either you ensure my safety around the clock and if you can't do that, then don't limit and restrict my ability to protect myself and my loved ones.
Just for the record. Gun with a trigger lock. Stored with one key on your key ring, The other IN THE LOCK. This adds a whole .25 sec to the firing process. Take it to the range and try, Raise Gun in right hand. With left hand reach out and turn and pull key. Lock falls to ground. Insert finger and squeeze.
Might not be a bad law to "support" with the right wording. (See! We're meeting you half way!, What not good enough? You extremist!)
Might not be a bad law to "support" with the right wording. (See! We're meeting you half way!, What not good enough? You extremist!)
Someone forward this to the appropriate legislators: Trigger Locks Are Dangerous
And remind them that 750,000 trigger locks are being recalled because THEY DON'T WORK.
And remind them that 750,000 trigger locks are being recalled because THEY DON'T WORK.
y'all really are missing the whole point.
It ain't about safe use, storage, etc. of firearms. Or any "gun-safety" or even "for the children."
If it was an actual safety issue that "they" cared for & a possible solution (to a mostly non-existant "problem," BTW), don't you think that there would be committess formed (and chaired) by those who actually have any firearms experience whatsoever? Of course.
They don't want the "problem" solved.
It is PC conditioning & ultimate banning of all things - from flags to guns to ....
Welcome to the Brave New World.
Hugs. Now go to jail.
It ain't about safe use, storage, etc. of firearms. Or any "gun-safety" or even "for the children."
If it was an actual safety issue that "they" cared for & a possible solution (to a mostly non-existant "problem," BTW), don't you think that there would be committess formed (and chaired) by those who actually have any firearms experience whatsoever? Of course.
They don't want the "problem" solved.
It is PC conditioning & ultimate banning of all things - from flags to guns to ....
Welcome to the Brave New World.
Hugs. Now go to jail.
I said this before and I'll repeat this again
for you.
Here in Ct we have the trigger lock law since 1993 with stiff penitlies applied if any one gets hurt by your improperly stored firearm.
Criminal penilities are up to 5 years in jail and up to a $20,000.oo fine or both
and in addition to this, you are lible for all civil damage suits, pain & suffering ,loss of income, medical & hospital bills, theripy etc & etc.
We keep all unused firearms in a safe or a locked closet.
Broken door locks or broken trigger locks are proff of thieft and absolve firearms owners from libility.
I always keep a jimmied trigger lock "handy",
just in case.
Our self defense guns--Because I have no childern and all in my home are trained in handgun safety--I keep my self defense guns loaded and unlocked.
This is a risk I choose to take because it is better to be tried by 12 than buried by 6
But, when someone visits that has childern, it is my responsibility to collect,unload and lock up my self defense guns.
This is a responsibility that I take most seriously and if someone arrives with childern I will not allow them into my home
until the guns have been unloaded and locked up.
I make visitors with childern wait in their car or on the poarch until my home is "clear" and safe.
If they don't like it,they are free to depart.
Bad laws need to be dealt with, one way or the other.
for you.
Here in Ct we have the trigger lock law since 1993 with stiff penitlies applied if any one gets hurt by your improperly stored firearm.
Criminal penilities are up to 5 years in jail and up to a $20,000.oo fine or both
and in addition to this, you are lible for all civil damage suits, pain & suffering ,loss of income, medical & hospital bills, theripy etc & etc.
We keep all unused firearms in a safe or a locked closet.
Broken door locks or broken trigger locks are proff of thieft and absolve firearms owners from libility.
I always keep a jimmied trigger lock "handy",
just in case.
Our self defense guns--Because I have no childern and all in my home are trained in handgun safety--I keep my self defense guns loaded and unlocked.
This is a risk I choose to take because it is better to be tried by 12 than buried by 6
But, when someone visits that has childern, it is my responsibility to collect,unload and lock up my self defense guns.
This is a responsibility that I take most seriously and if someone arrives with childern I will not allow them into my home
until the guns have been unloaded and locked up.
I make visitors with childern wait in their car or on the poarch until my home is "clear" and safe.
If they don't like it,they are free to depart.
Bad laws need to be dealt with, one way or the other.