I own a very sweet S&W Model 60 .38 special. It is a great gun and accurate weapon that I have had for ten years. Never really shot it much until recently. Shooting the local snubbie matches have led me to notice the gun does not shoot to the point of aim, even at close range. It shoots VERY low. The front sight seems too high. I understand this is a common problem with J frames. Is this true? Can anyone recommend a Smith that would "regulate" my sights to the point of aim and does this type of work on J frames?
Fixed Sights on a S&W60
- Thread starter MP-5
- Start date
JimWolford
New member
What type of ammo are you shooting?
I know it sounds crazy, but i'm serious<s>
I own over a dozen "j" frame Smiths and the only thing that will shoot where you look in the 38 Spec models is the old 158 grain standard lead bullet factory load.
That is what the sights were designed for, and that load will shoot to point of aim.
You gotta remember that when the "Chief Special" came on the market, the 38 Spec was used by most all police departments in the USA and the 158 gr round nose lead bullet was standard duty ammo for those guns.
It figgures that the designers would also set up their "backup" gun for the same ammo.
If I try to shoot HV 125 gr loads in any of my fixed sight 38's they shoot low, all of them<s>
This is not just the J model Smiths, this also happens with my K frame guns too
Jim
I know it sounds crazy, but i'm serious<s>
I own over a dozen "j" frame Smiths and the only thing that will shoot where you look in the 38 Spec models is the old 158 grain standard lead bullet factory load.
That is what the sights were designed for, and that load will shoot to point of aim.
You gotta remember that when the "Chief Special" came on the market, the 38 Spec was used by most all police departments in the USA and the 158 gr round nose lead bullet was standard duty ammo for those guns.
It figgures that the designers would also set up their "backup" gun for the same ammo.
If I try to shoot HV 125 gr loads in any of my fixed sight 38's they shoot low, all of them<s>
This is not just the J model Smiths, this also happens with my K frame guns too
Jim
The key here is barrel time. When a pistol is fired, recoil begins when bullet movement begins. The pistol is actually recoiling while the bullet is making its way down the barrel.
Fixed sights are set, as Jim Wolford says, for a standard bullet and velocity. If the bullet moves faster than the standard, the pistol does not recoil far enough for the bullet to strike the point of aim and the shot goes low. Conversely, if the bullet moves slower, the gun has more time to recoil and the bullet strikes high.
Before anyone asks, yes, this applies to auto pistols as well. In a gun like the Model 1911, the bullet is moving forward while the barrel is coming back and down to unlock. Just another little problem for those who tune pistols with dropping barrels.
P.S. If anyone does not believe this, take any revolver and set a ruler on the sights; you will see that the barrel is definitely pointing down in relation to the sights.
Jim
Fixed sights are set, as Jim Wolford says, for a standard bullet and velocity. If the bullet moves faster than the standard, the pistol does not recoil far enough for the bullet to strike the point of aim and the shot goes low. Conversely, if the bullet moves slower, the gun has more time to recoil and the bullet strikes high.
Before anyone asks, yes, this applies to auto pistols as well. In a gun like the Model 1911, the bullet is moving forward while the barrel is coming back and down to unlock. Just another little problem for those who tune pistols with dropping barrels.
P.S. If anyone does not believe this, take any revolver and set a ruler on the sights; you will see that the barrel is definitely pointing down in relation to the sights.
Jim
George Stringer
Staff Alumnus
MP-5, both Jims are right. Just to illustrate this a bit, in my S&W 29, when sighted in for full power .44 mag hunting loads .44 Spls have a point of impact 13" higher. Yesterday a guy was sighting in a .50 cal muzzleloader using 80gr powder with a round ball. He couldn't get his sights adjusted low enough to hit the bullseye at 50 yds. I suggested he increase to 100 grains and the rifle was suddenly shooting a little low so he was able to adjust his sights. George
Thanks for the backup, George. I expected to be "flamed" because most people just refuse to believe that a hotter load shoots lower.
When a nearby police department went to +P+ .38 Special, their instructor told me the new ammunition was designed to shoot low so the bad guy would be hit in the stomach and it would hurt more. When I explained why the +P+ shot low, he called me an idiot and said that that kind of stupidity proved that civilians should not be allowed to have guns.
God bless our "protectors".
Jim
When a nearby police department went to +P+ .38 Special, their instructor told me the new ammunition was designed to shoot low so the bad guy would be hit in the stomach and it would hurt more. When I explained why the +P+ shot low, he called me an idiot and said that that kind of stupidity proved that civilians should not be allowed to have guns.
God bless our "protectors".
Jim
Thanks guys for all your feedback. Ill try the 158's in different loadings and experiment. Just curious, these small 2" j frames, what yardage are they sighted in for? In the snubbie matches we rarely shoot past 7 yards. At this distance I see the weapon shooting high. What yardage can I expect the 158's to shoot to the point of aim? 25 yds, or 50' or etc??? Your feedback is greatly appreciated 
Well, I shot the 60 yesterday with two different handloads.
1. 158 Grain SWC above 3.0 grains of Bullseye
2.158 Grain SWC above maximum charge of Bullseye
Two extremes in the 158 loading. The results? The weapon is still shooting 5"-9" low at 25yds and approximately 3"left. And yes, the lighter load shot higher! Any suggestions? Im frustrated.
1. 158 Grain SWC above 3.0 grains of Bullseye
2.158 Grain SWC above maximum charge of Bullseye
Two extremes in the 158 loading. The results? The weapon is still shooting 5"-9" low at 25yds and approximately 3"left. And yes, the lighter load shot higher! Any suggestions? Im frustrated.