Fixed sight frustration!

Z

ZVP

New member
I've had my4 5/8" stainless Vaquero about 3 yes and after trying dozens of different bullets and loads I finally( by accident) discovered a bullet that fires where the sights point!!!
Thank goodness it's even a factory load! The Remington 158g r/n lead bullet.I'm stocking up!
There is nothing as frustrating ass being just a little left when shooting preciston stuff like playing cards
 
I think that if you're not a hand loader, that's what they make those little files for...

if you are shooting low, you can file the front sight down some ( it doesn't take much ) if you are shooting to the left or right, ( please don't "bend the front sight )... take a small file & file your rear sight groove on the side you need to move your point of impact ( if you remove some metal from the side of your rear sight groove, & center the front sight in the groove, it'll move over your point of impact
 
Fixed sights aren't for precision shooting.

Adjustable sights not only offer precise adjustments, but better sight picture as well.

Either put decent sights on your gun, or get a Blackhawk.

Bob Wright
 
Agree with Bob. Any gun that is gonna be used for anything but informal plinkin and close range SD requires better sights than those found on traditional SA guns. Fact is the traditional SA sights pretty well stink even if they do hit POA and they get even worse if they are stainless and/or you're gettin some age on your eyes.

But never fear, there are gunsmiths that can and will install quality sights on your gun. Already savin up myself. Will it affect the looks of a traditional styled gun? Maybe, but how can it be a bad thing if it turns it from a range toy to a useable shooter. Manufactures putting crappy sights on anything but belly guns borders on criminal.
 
I’ve had a 5 ½”bbl blued new model Vaquero in 45 Colt for about 3 yrs now and I’ve shot mostly cowboy loads through it.
I also have a S&W 686 .357 and have shot various .357/.38Spl loads through it.

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine that for each caliber, there is a specific bullet weight that is most aligned with each caliber.
e.g. For .357/38Spl, that bullet weight is 158gr. By contrast, if you shoot a 130gr bullet in .38Spl, you will most likely find that it shoots low.
Same with 45 Colt – the bullet weight for that caliber is 250gr. If you shoot a 200gr bullet, you will most likely find that it shoots low.

My observations with both of my revolvers:
I’ve tried these examples above with Remington 130gr FMJ ammo in .38Spl and some Blazer 200gr JHP in 45 Colt. That is exactly what happened.
Yet, when I use the 158gr and 250gr bullets/ammo, respectively, most of the shots go to point of aim.

So, for your 4 5/8” Vaquero, perhaps try some other 158gr loads (either lead or FMJ) and see how they measure up for point of aim vs. point of impact (POA vs. POI).

Regards,
Mike
 
i have to disagree to a point on the statement that fixed sights are not for good pinpoint accuracy. please remember that the most popular gun for formal target shooting for 20 years was a sw revolver with FIXED sights.
 
Newton24b wrote:

i have to disagree to a point on the statement that fixed sights are not for good pinpoint accuracy. please remember that the most popular gun for formal target shooting for 20 years was a sw revolver with FIXED sights.
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I am not sure to which S&W you refer. But the all the target guns of the Nineteenth Century had fixed TARGET sights. At the time there were the sights preferred by Ira Paine, which consisted of a bead front sight and a U notch rear sight. These were more or less fixed but could be regulated by the individual shooter. The Patridge sight introduced the square notch rear and square post sight, both being in use around the early 1900's.

The most popular S&W target revolver of all time was the K-38 Masterpiece, now the Model 14. This gun had the typical S&W fully adjustable target sights.

But the great target revovlers of their day, the Colt Bisley, Single Action Flat Top, Shooting Master, and New Service Target all had target sights.

The old .44 Russian S&W No. 3 Target had somewhat crude target sights. True, some guns with fixed sights were popular for a time, but when modern guns with target sights appeared on the line, records began falling.

There are fixed sights, and then there are fixed sights. By the former I refer to the grooved frame and plain post front, while by the latter I refer to a good Patridge rear sight dovetailed into the topstrap and a good square post front sight.

Bob Wright
 
i have to disagree to a point on the statement that fixed sights are not for good pinpoint accuracy. please remember that the most popular gun for formal target shooting for 20 years was a sw revolver with FIXED sights.
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If by "formal" target shooting you are referencing Bullseye matches, please be advised that revolvers haven't been viable contenders with serious competitors for many decades. And, as Bob Wright pointed out, even when target revolvers (in .38 Special chambering, most of us shot either a Smith K-38 Masterpiece or a Colt Officers Match/Special) were the King of Bullseye, all of them were used with adjustable sights, certainly since the mid-twentieth century and all years later.
 
Incidentally, bullseye shooting is not precision shooting in the strictest sense. Not to take anything away from target shooters, target shooting is accurate shooting. That is, placing your shots in the X-ring of a target, or as near as possible to it. But consider this: the bullseye is maybe six inches in diameter or more, and a six o'clock hold is normally used. This means you are hitting about three to four inches above the point of aim.

Now, if you target is a dime sized object, the shots will miss. Precision shooting is hitting very small objects, so your pistol or revolver must be sighted to shoot dead on at some practical range.

Precision shooting is what is required for small game such as squirrels, where the head is maybe 1" to 1 1/4" in height.

There is a difference, in my opinion.

Bob Wright
 
Incidentally, bullseye shooting is not precision shooting in the strictest sense.
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I'm not sure what you mean. You're still aiming at the "X" ring, whether you're using a 6:00 hold or otherwise. Whether you actually hit the X-ring or not is a separate matter. It is possible to hit the X-ring every time in a Bullseye match, if highly unlikely. If precision shooting means only hitting the X (not just the "ring") every time you aim at it, then benchrest shooting might be the only game that qualifies.
 
Fixed sights aren't for precision shooting.
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I totally disagree.
Fact is the traditional SA sights pretty well stink even if they do hit POA and they get even worse if they are stainless and/or you're gettin some age on your eyes.
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I agree to a point, while they are more difficult to see and require more time to get a proper sight picture, If you can see them and they are regulated properly the small U notch and narrow front sight found on early single actions are very capable of exellent precision accuracy.
 
dgludwig wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean. You're still aiming at the "X" ring, whether you're using a 6:00 hold or otherwise
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.

You are not aiming at the X-Ring, you are aiming at the bottom quadrant of a circle some three or four inches below the X-ring, the black. If you use the same gun/ammo combination aiming at the head of a squirrel, you will go home empty handed.

If you used a center hold to hit dead center, that's precision shooting.

And mavracer wrote:

...........they are more difficult to see and require more time to get a proper sight picture, If you can see them and they are regulated properly the small U notch and narrow front sight found on early single actions are very capable of exellent precision accuracy.
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Getting the proper sight picture is most difficult, for me any way, with a groove in the frame sight, as the top of the frame is rounded. This means that often times the eye sees the front sight on a "secant" and other times on a "radial" line, so it becomes very difficult to hold proper elevation, especially at extended ranges. Whether U- or square notch, the bottom makes no difference, only the top lines of the sights count.

I have tried my Vaquero and my Blackhawk out to 200 meters, and the Blackhawk wins hands down.

Bob Wright
 
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Bob saying "I can't" is very different than "it can't be done". If your going to change your stance to that you can't shoot precision with fixed sights I'm not gonna argue.;)

I have tried my Vaquero and my Blackhawk out to 200 meters, and the Blackhawk wins hands down.
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There's part of your problem the Vaquero does not hold to original Colt style sights the rear sight is square and wide the front sight is wide and still rounded. the original Colt was a very small U notch and a narrow front which gives a much better sight picture like a rifle. when you widen the notch it works much better to flatten the top of the front sight like USFA and Uberti do on their models with wider fronts.
I find very little difference in practical accuracy between my Colt, USFA, Ubertis, Vaquero (with a flattened front sight) and my many Blackhawks.
 
Fixed sights aren't for precision shooting.

Adjustable sights not only offer precise adjustments, but better sight picture as well.

Either put decent sights on your gun, or get a Blackhawk.

Bob Wright
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I have to agree with Bob. Any fixed sight handgun are for shooting ranges from 7 to 15 yards. Beyond that range they drop off on accuracy. When a person shops for a handgun, the person has to determine the preferred range they are going to shoot the gun at. Beyond 15 yards its better to buy a adjustable sight handgun so the person can adjust their sights to the ammo they are using.
Howard
 
The Eternal Dilemma...

Whether is it proper to adjust the ammo to the gun, or adjust the gun to the ammo.

With an adjustable sight gun, the choice is simple, you adjust the gun (sights) for the ammo used.

For a fixed sight gun, the choice is more difficult, because if you "adjust" the gun, it is nearly always a permanent change. You can take a file to the sights, but I won't. And I won't advocate it, either. Personally, I consider it butchery.

Any gun is only going to be perfectly "on" with one load, at one range. Adjustable sights give YOU the option to decide what that will be. And the ability to change it at will, and change it back, as often as you want with screwdriver.

You can change fixed sight guns, with a file, but you cannot change it back without the services of a good shop.

Its a personal matter, but if the gun doesn't come with adjustments, I much prefer to "adjust" my ammo, or my aim!
 
Any fixed sight handgun are for shooting ranges from 7 to 15 yards. Beyond that range they drop off on accuracy.
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The sad part is so many people believe this, It's laughable.
25 yards standing one handed no support.
SANY0228.jpg
 
Excellent replies! I found a lot I found a lot
Of use in the postings.
Since finding these .38 Specials, no fileingvwill be needed! Plus being a factory load And the fact that i do not reload this is a dream come true!
Compensating for off center hits is a pain and now I can get more precise shot placement. For serious social work I can live with being a bit off and rely on the raw power of the .357 to aid with a stopping hit.
But busting cans and such needs spot-On sight pictures. LOL!
My next S/A will be a Blackhawk with adjustable sights.
Thanks for all youp replies!
ZVPl
 
In my experience most fixed sight, 38/357 revolvers are designed to shoot 158 gr 38 special ammo well. No surprise that's what you found works well in your gun. It's the most common practice ammo in those guns I would think.

Funny thing. I've mostly used guns with adjustable sights, but I very seldom ever adjust them. Now, I admit that most of my shooting is done at seven to ten yards, just punching holes in paper or bounching a can or milk jug around. I might have to admust them left/right one time, usually just a matter of getting them centered, but that's about it.
 
I load my own so finding a load to match the gun just isn't tough. I shoot SAA Colts, or clones, almost exclusively. Hopefully your gun shoots low out of the box, a little careful file or stone work makes the elevation right. If windage is really bad you can turn the barrel just a bit one way or the other. Go slow on any alteration done to your gun. With a 200 gr RNFP lead bullet, 6.8 gr of Red Dot and a WW Primer I shoot ok. This month I shot a clean match.
BTW, I shoot 'Gunfighter' so the left has to be as good as the left and yep, I have Right Hand Guns and Left Hand Guns.
 
You are not aiming at the X-Ring, you are aiming at the bottom quadrant of a circle some three or four inches below the X-ring, the black. If you use the same gun/ammo combination aiming at the head of a squirrel, you will go home empty handed.

If you used a center hold to hit dead center, that's precision shooting.
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If you think about it, I think you would understand the objections of a Bullseye shooter to this logic. Nothing in the rules says you have to use a 6 o'clock hold.
 
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