HK P7's, Vektor CP-1's and and Heritage Stealths all have a fixed barrel and gas-retarded recoil reduction system. I'm struck by how well and how easy these three pistols--wildly different in price--seem to shoot. They have extraordinarily low recoil, and seem to be super accurate, even when being shot by persons with little or no firearms training. Hence I wonder why this basic pistol design hasn't been employed more widely by the major manufacturers. It would seem to offer more of what defensive shooters want: easier accuracy, easier shooting, and better performance with little need for training. Why haven't other manufacturers developed fixed barrel gas-retarded designs for their defensive pistols?
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Fixed barrel gas-retarded--best defensive handgun design?
- Thread starter MRW
- Start date
Accuracy and low recoil are trademarks of a gas retarded fixed barrel system... However, most gas retarded systems are ammo sensitive. Weak loads will have problems cycling the slide reliably... The gas system can cause the gun to get very hot. But that is only a problem in a prolonged gun battle... Supposedly, gas systems require more care and maintenance to function properly/reliably....
In the 80s, I had a Steyr GB, which has the gas-retarded system with a fixed barrel. While it was a lovely pistol to behold, it could not be shot more than a couple hundred rounds without jamming up. The pistol had to be kept very clean to work properly. Add to this flaw a long DA trigger for the first shot, and I grew tired of it quickly and traded it away.
Now, years later, I use a HK P7 and have had no problems with it. It is a reliable pistol. While it does get hot after extensive firing, I don't have much of a problem with this aspect of it.
After my esperience with the Steyr GB, I was leery of getting into another gas-retarded blowback pistol, but the P7 is a gem. I value it as much as my 1911s.
Why the gas-retarded system is not more popular may have to do with the cost of manufacturing such pistols. The P7 is not cheap while the other two mentioned are regarded as contingency pistols designed to be carried often but not shot much (this feature probably done to keep the price more competitive).
Also, when it comes to handguns, people tend to go with what they know works. The gas-retarded system remains an enigma despite the fact it has been around almost as long the tilting-barrel system.
So it goes.
Now, years later, I use a HK P7 and have had no problems with it. It is a reliable pistol. While it does get hot after extensive firing, I don't have much of a problem with this aspect of it.
After my esperience with the Steyr GB, I was leery of getting into another gas-retarded blowback pistol, but the P7 is a gem. I value it as much as my 1911s.
Why the gas-retarded system is not more popular may have to do with the cost of manufacturing such pistols. The P7 is not cheap while the other two mentioned are regarded as contingency pistols designed to be carried often but not shot much (this feature probably done to keep the price more competitive).
Also, when it comes to handguns, people tend to go with what they know works. The gas-retarded system remains an enigma despite the fact it has been around almost as long the tilting-barrel system.
So it goes.
Jwong & Trevor,
Thanks for the insights. I'm in the process of exploring this issue for a magazine article, and want to move up the learning curve a bit beyond my own experience.
Re ammo sensitivity, I have a Vektor CP-1 and a Heritage Stealth on their way, and will test both with a thousand rounds or so of various ammo. I'm curious if these inexpensive pistols will feed everything the way the P7 does.
Re care & maintenance, I'll also explore that. The P7 seems to work perfectly no matter how dirty it is, and anecdotes abound about thousands of rounds being put through the thing without any cleaning.
I have a theory that this design, especially in the case of HK, has simply been poorly marketed. The average shooter, if they've ever even heard of a P7, thinks it's an obscure PPK type design with an odd cocking mechanism. That this gun is easier to shoot with much less training seems virtually a secret. I raise an eyebrow when what is often called the best 9mm pistol in the world is only copied by a couple of relatively inexpensive South African originated designs. Not to take anything away from South Africa, but if it's that good, and if it apparently can be copied at fairly low cost, shouldn't Sig, Glock or any other major manufacturer come out with something fixed/gas retarded?
The market's greater familiarity with other designs may explain much, but the P7 type system seems enough of an improvement over competing defensive pistol designs as to justify more examples from more makers. I find it odd that that hasn't happened, neither in the States nor in Europe.
Thanks for the insights. I'm in the process of exploring this issue for a magazine article, and want to move up the learning curve a bit beyond my own experience.
Re ammo sensitivity, I have a Vektor CP-1 and a Heritage Stealth on their way, and will test both with a thousand rounds or so of various ammo. I'm curious if these inexpensive pistols will feed everything the way the P7 does.
Re care & maintenance, I'll also explore that. The P7 seems to work perfectly no matter how dirty it is, and anecdotes abound about thousands of rounds being put through the thing without any cleaning.
I have a theory that this design, especially in the case of HK, has simply been poorly marketed. The average shooter, if they've ever even heard of a P7, thinks it's an obscure PPK type design with an odd cocking mechanism. That this gun is easier to shoot with much less training seems virtually a secret. I raise an eyebrow when what is often called the best 9mm pistol in the world is only copied by a couple of relatively inexpensive South African originated designs. Not to take anything away from South Africa, but if it's that good, and if it apparently can be copied at fairly low cost, shouldn't Sig, Glock or any other major manufacturer come out with something fixed/gas retarded?
The market's greater familiarity with other designs may explain much, but the P7 type system seems enough of an improvement over competing defensive pistol designs as to justify more examples from more makers. I find it odd that that hasn't happened, neither in the States nor in Europe.
MRW,
They probably are not the right choice for someone doing any reloading or planning to use lead rn ammo. I've been told by Craig of Craig Ltd. who produces these, that you should only use jacked ammo for the reasons already mentioned. That said, it sounds as if they would make a good choice for someone who cleans his guns often and doesn't mind being meticulous about it.
I'll have to agree. I wish Sig and others would also come out w/these. More competition and higher production might bring prices down or at least competitive w/standard systems. Competition is a good thing for consumers in more ways than one.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
They probably are not the right choice for someone doing any reloading or planning to use lead rn ammo. I've been told by Craig of Craig Ltd. who produces these, that you should only use jacked ammo for the reasons already mentioned. That said, it sounds as if they would make a good choice for someone who cleans his guns often and doesn't mind being meticulous about it.
I'll have to agree. I wish Sig and others would also come out w/these. More competition and higher production might bring prices down or at least competitive w/standard systems. Competition is a good thing for consumers in more ways than one.
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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)