First Shotgun...Expert Advice?

SoberSunday01

New member
Hey everybody, I am relatively new to the wonderful world of firearms. I purchased a Smith and Wesson 686 last october, and now I am starting to get serious about a shotgun purchase. I would like to have a decent HD shotgun, although i would most likely be shooting trap for fun (and to familiarize myself with the gun). Now my question is what would be the best purchase for me? I saw a used Ithaca 37 (26" barrel) at Cabelas for $300, roughly the same gun (used Ithaca 37) with a vented rib for $450, and a new 11-87 sportsman at a sporting goods store for $650. What would be the best buy for my situation? Btw I understand that an 18.5" or 20" barrel is ideal for HD, but that is only a minor concern in my suburban town. I also may get into hunting deer down the road, but I quite possibly will buy something different for that. I am not hung up on any of three models I mentioned, just the three that caught my eye. Sorry for the long post, but I joined months ago and have been saving it all up.

BTW, the Saiga-12 with a muzzle brake caught my eye as well, but I'm not sure the guys I went trap shooting or hunting with would be able to stop laughing. :)
 
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Greetings SoberSunday01, and welcome to the Shotguns forum.

Let's start with your handgun -- what selection process did you follow that led you to the S&W 686? Did you get it on an impulse, or a after considerable deliberation? If the latter, then a similar process can be applied to a shotgun. Let's look a several variables:

Basic action type:
Why did you go with a revolver? Obviously it wasn't for the maximum number of shots. Most likely it was because of a revolver's simplicity of operation… load, pull trigger, bang. Semi-auto pistols vary in operation form model to model; but, modern double action revolvers pretty much function the same. There are some break-open revolvers out there, but most are of the swing-out cylinder design. Assuming you prefer the simplicity of the DA revolver, and that preference applies to you shotgun selection, perhaps you should scratch auto-loading shotguns from your list.

Without the auto loaders in the mix, that leaves standing breech (hinge guns: single-shots, side-by-sides[SxS] and over/unders[O/U]), pump-action, and bolt action guns. For trap shooting, a single shot is adequate. It's the only shotgun sport that doesn't require a quick second shot. Many competition trap guns are basically tricked-out single shot guns. Your trap shooting buddies aren't going to laugh if you show up with a single shot gun like the Browning BT-99.

I mentioned bolt-action shotguns only so you'd be aware of them. Typically they are bottom dollar guns that are very slow cycling. Actually, they a little better than a single shot with an on-board ammo supply. I won't mention them again.

Since you mentioned hunting and HD, you'll probably not want a long barreled single-shot trap gun -- a repeater of some sort is order. For clay target shooting, two shots are sufficient, and many folks consider two shots sufficient for hunting. For more than two shots there are the pump action guns (we already dismissed the auto-loaders). You've been reading this forum for a while, I'm sure you are aware of the complaints posted by the owners of pump guns. Since you may be after simplicity and reliability, a two shot standing breech gun is the obvious choice.

These days, when selecting between a decent SxS and an O/U, most folks will opt for the O/U. There is a group who are fans of the SxS coach guns for HD and cowboy shooting. For trap and hunting a quality O/U will serve you a lifetime. You could opt for a combo -- basically and O/U with and additional long single barrel for trap.

Budget:
Since you have a S&W 686 instead of one of many less costly .357 Mag DAs, I'll assume you're not after a bottom dollar gun. For quality O/Us, Browning and Beretta are the heavy hitters in the lower cost market; however, Winchester is trying to make a come-back with their new line of Belgian made guns. Take some time and familiarize yourself with their offerings. I'm sure others will recommend their favorite guns.

Fit:
When buying a revolver, most folks don't give fit a second thought. If it doesn't work out, modifying or replacing revolver grips is not a big deal. This is not the case with shotguns. It is not unusual to spend considerable effort and $$$ to make a shotgun stock fit you properly. Try as many guns as possible: rent, beg or borrow as many guns, for fit and firing as possible. Only with shooting experience will you learn what stock dimensions work for you. If you're not "average" size, don't be surprised if none of the factory stocks fit you. Thankfully, gun makers are aware that we no longer have a friendly custom stock fitter in every LGS, and they are making guns with self-fitable stocks.


Of course, you may have bought the S & W 686 because it was bright and shiny and you had to have it on the spot. If that's the case, the same process may apply to your shotgun. ;)

Good luck, and keep us updated with your progress.
 
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Out of the ones you mentioned i like the Ithaca 37 with a vent rib barrel if its in nice shape, you don't see them often, most are "round" barrel.
 
Thanks for all the info Zippy, I half expected you to bring oneounceload to the thread (just looking for as many expert opinions as possible). I did indeed buy the revolver for the simplicity of it...I want my tools to be as reliable as possible. I can definitely buy an O/U, but I would have to hold off until June or July until my finances came in order. Right now i have roughly $600-$800 to spend on something. I was thinking about buying the Ithaca 37 while I hold off for more cash and a better shotgun. Yes, I just started getting into firearms, but I feel as though I need to buy everything I see right now. Tell me I'm not alone. And thanks to anybody and everybody who answered. I am completely new to guns and nobody close to me has picked up the hobby yet.

Tom
 
Hey now, I'm on vacation and keeping up as best as I can!:D (Good thing the inlaws have wireless).

Zippy's epistle should be read and reread - he hits every point with well thought out intelligence (not that I expected anything less)

Zippy mentioned fit - if there's one thing that is crucial to using a shotgun properly for moving game - whether clay or feather - it is fit. While a proper, professional fitting seems out of your budget at the moment, you can get fairly close by actually firing the models you're considering. Find some folks at your friendly gun CLUB (not the indoor pistol/HD ranges), and ask to borrow/rent them and shoot some targets. You'll get a sense of how each gun "feels" to you and also see if that feel translates into broken targets - something that just shouldering the gun in the store won't tell you.

Your budget can be finagled to include a used semi from the likes of Remington or Beretta. A semi will give you, IMO, an edge over a pump if you start shooting trap doubles or migrate to Zippy's zone - skeet (or mine which is 5-stand and sporting clays).

Regarding the O/U - June or July is only two months away - what do YOU want to shoot? If it is an O/U, then wait and get the gun you want - if you "settle" for your second choice, you'll always be kicking yourself - these guns aren't going to get any cheaper. Same thing applies for the O/U - beg/borrow/rent as many as you can to see which feels right. Be forewarned, a GOOD entry-level target-grade O/U like a Browning or Beretta will run typically at least double or triple you current budget. With reasonable care, it will last a long time without incident.

Case in point - I have replaced the firing pin springs on my 1100 three times now - gun has about8-10,000 rounds of 28 through it. Last year I had the springs replaced in my Browning GTi - it had in the neighborhood of 90,000 rounds through it (the Browning is an O/U, the Remington a semi). I'm sure Zippy's Perazzi's have bested my Browning for durability.

Good luck - take your time, get the gun you want that FITS (or can be made to fit with a minimal investment)!

And one last thing - read my sig line and commit to buying once and enjoying forever
 
Everyone should have a pumpgun, IMO. You may want to try out a few guns first and see what works for you before spending money. A polite new shooter at most ranges may get to try out a lot of other folks' shotguns.

The Ithaca 37 is a fine field gun, but the idiosyncrasies of the action make it unpopular at the range. It's also a lightweight, so it shines in the uplands but not at a 200 round range day.

The 11-87 is a good design and well made, but like most autoloaders needs more TLC and PM than other action types. The best autos are probably the Beretta 390,391 and the economical 3901.

BTW, those prices you quote seem a bit high.

When it comes to doubles, one rarely see the words "Good" and "Cheap" in the same sentence. Expect to lay out maybe $2K for a new Beretta or Browning, and more. Worth it, though, they keep value and last a very long time.

Whatever you decide to get, make sure it fits and then BA/UU/R.


HTH.....
 
Dave McC, first of all thanks for replying. I am thinking the prices may be high solely for the fact that I still currently reside in Crook County, where it is a sin to own a firearm. The taxes get up around ten percent I believe, so maybe the stores pass some of that on to the consumers before the purchase. Oneounceload, it might be later than July if I'm looking at two thousand. I live by your quote though, and another I might make as my signature. "You buy cheap...You buy twice". I would love an O/U that lasted forever, but I'm not sure I can wait months to start filling my safe. Maybe an 870 for now and save save save for something I can get married to. Thoughts?

Tom

And btw, is putting 00 buckshot in a quality O/U sacrilege? If so...then I'll most likely get a pump and save save save.
 
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I have a good O/U, and 5 870s. Every shooter needs an 870(or 500) because the things are so versatile, inexpensive and reliable.

This O/U is a range tool and a great example of that. It can take 00,though I have other shotguns that are better choices for defensive use. The Beretta is less versatile than the 870s, but better at what it's dedicated to, separating the molecules of clay targets from each other, and doing so in comfort.

Still, I shot 5 stand with it yesterday and got beaten handily by a young friend with an 870 Express. His first shotgun. His is the combo,with a long barrel for wingshooting,hunting and clays, and a 20" RS barrel for deer and defense.

That combo will come in for less than $400,even in Crook County, and last for generations. Literally.

You may want to get something like that, become proficient with it while having major fun, and save up for a dedicated clays O/U. I did.

HTH.....
 
If you want the pump now, then get it -just realize it will take you that much longer to get your O/U - that's a decision you need to make based on your needs and wants. While I have a 500 in the closet somewhere, my preferences lean towards O/Us and (when I can) SxS - I prefer the looks, balance and versatility two chokes can give me for the games I shoot.

Evaluate your situation and go accordingly.

Have fun!
 
oneounceload said:
Hey now, I'm on vacation and keeping up as best as I can!
That's a tough one, my friend… If you're already living in Florida, how do you decide where do you go on vacation? ;)
I'm sure Zippy's Perazzi's have bested my Browning for durability.
Perhaps not, although they have digested many 100,000 nasty reloads, my old P-guns have probably eaten more trigger springs and firing pins than a boat load of Brownings. That's one reason they have drop out triggers and come with spare springs, pins and a special tool to make their R & R a breeze.
perazzi_repairkit_S.jpg

[SIZE=-2]Perazzi rebuild kit[/SIZE]
 
Nothing to really add - that hasn't been pointed out ....except to just have fun with the process.

I'm not into tactical shotguns / your 686 or any number of handguns can handle that very well, in my opinion. I would instead recommend you focus on a gun you can have some fun with shooting clay targets. Nothing wrong with a pump gun / although my choice is the Browning BPS Hunter model, with a 28" barrel. The BPS is cast neutral / has a good smooth action ...and even though I primarily shoot O/U's today, I still have a couple of BPS's I purchased back in the 70's and early 80's ...
 
I'd figure out whether you want a home defense shotgun or a hunting shotgun. If you want to do both jobs, I'd start looking for and thinking about 2 shotguns rather than one. A dedicated HD gun, and a hunting gun.

It's easier to make an HD gun hunt than it is to make a hunting gun become an HD if really on a tight budget.

Just my $.02
 
Zippy - the smog in LA was nasty today on my way home from Reno...;)

One thing I wish Browning and some others would do is give you the tools like Perazzi does so you could at least make a quick field repair - something not always easily done.

Back to OP -

It's easier to make an HD gun hunt than it - is to make a hunting gun become an HD if really on a tight budget

That's where those combo sets from Mossberg can come in handy, although, I agree - better to have two - one for each purpose - where each excels for its given purpose than making do with one that doesn't really do either particularly well
 
"BTW, the Saiga-12 with a muzzle brake caught my eye as well, but I'm not sure the guys I went trap shooting or hunting with would be able to stop laughing."


Hey, if you let them shoot your shotgun with your ammunition, do you really think they'd be laughing at you?
I went to an auction the other day and the guy who bought the nice Remington .22 pump let me hold it while he got something to drink. I was honored to hold it for him!

As for a Shotgun, Remington 870, interchangable barrels, interchangable Rem-chokes, short HD barrel, a *ahem* few other accessories out there. Yea, kinda "ho hum" as it has been around almost forever, but you don't necessarily have to choose the cheaper Express model either. . . :)

P S : Nice choice of revolver, btw. :D
 
for a first shotgun look at the 870, 500 or 1300's (remmy, mossy and winchester in that order).

I would stick with a good pump for the time being. find one that fits you (some of the 870 express models are POS's but i have a couple of the older wingmasters that are a fine piece of artwork. the 500's are pure and simple pieces of machinery that work no matter what. the 1300 is a high tech state of the art pump gun that is the smoothest you'll ever find and is the fastest pump gun you will shoot (other than a model 12 winchester).

if you want an semi-auto it is hard to beat an 1100. just look and you will find decent ones with removeable chokes and 24 or 26inch barrels for cheap prices (i just picked up an 1100 with hastings 24" barrel with removeable chokes, a speed feed stock set and a side mount scope mount that has a detachable top portion ,,,,, all this was $300 plus $30 shipping). I just looked and looked and looked until I found the one I wanted and got lucky when the auction ended on a sunday evening and nobody bid except me :D

best idea is to hit the gun shops and look and touch all the shotguns they have until you find the one you want and then go online and look for the same gun and either buy it online for a lot less than local or spend the $$ and buy local.

for me i buy guns online and then support the local guy with ammo and accessories purchases. they realize that they can't match online prices for guns, but they appreciate my business with accessories, which I often spend more on accessories than i do on guns.

JOE
 
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