I have slowly been gathering equipment for reloading, and I finally have everything I think I need. Now I just need to get supplies- bullets, primers, and powder. I am wanting to start with 9mm and maybe 40's. My question is, which is the best type projectile to start with? I have seen cast, cast with a plastic looking coating over it, and regular jacketed type bullets. The cast definitely look to be the cheapest, but are any easier than the others, or does it even matter? Thanks.
First projectiles
- Thread starter Drmoneejd
- Start date
If you are talking semi-auto pistol or NON-MAGNUM revolver, I would submit that copper plated bullets of the most typical weight for caliber is the best combination of:
--ease of use at the bench
--performance down range
--affordability
--consistency
--ability to acquire
--ability to find load data
--likely to make your gun happy
Cabela's sells 250-ct boxes of Berry's if you have a Cabela's near you & don't wanna spend too much. But you can save a heap by ordering in bulk online.
--ease of use at the bench
--performance down range
--affordability
--consistency
--ability to acquire
--ability to find load data
--likely to make your gun happy
Cabela's sells 250-ct boxes of Berry's if you have a Cabela's near you & don't wanna spend too much. But you can save a heap by ordering in bulk online.
jwrowland77
New member
Me personally, I'd say start with jacketed or plated. That way you're not having to worry about anything else in the process of reloading or with your firearm. That's just me though
Welcome to TFL and the world of handloading.
For 9mm, I recommend plated. And 124's. But the powder you get can influence which bullet weight would be ideal.
You'll get differing opinions, but I'd stay away from lead bullets - at least for now. Lead can cause issues that you don't need to deal with right now. Stick with plated.
As for jacketed: You can use them, for sure. But they're not necessary; again, at least for now. Jacketed bullets are more expensive, and plated will do just fine, unless you're loading really hot loads. Which you're not. Because you're just getting started.
So my vote goes for plated 124's. These would work nicely: http://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-124-RN-p/xc9mm-124rn-b0250.htm
For 9mm, I recommend plated. And 124's. But the powder you get can influence which bullet weight would be ideal.
You'll get differing opinions, but I'd stay away from lead bullets - at least for now. Lead can cause issues that you don't need to deal with right now. Stick with plated.
As for jacketed: You can use them, for sure. But they're not necessary; again, at least for now. Jacketed bullets are more expensive, and plated will do just fine, unless you're loading really hot loads. Which you're not. Because you're just getting started.
So my vote goes for plated 124's. These would work nicely: http://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-124-RN-p/xc9mm-124rn-b0250.htm
Let me expand a bit.
At pistol velocities (and without the typical roll crimp that revolver rounds have) copper plated does a great job at mimicing jacketed bullets but at a lower cost. These days, almost ZERO indoor ranges will even allow cast lead bullets and there is also a learning curve with cast lead that make them better suited to seasoned handloaders.
Specifically, I would suggest 115 or better yet, my preferrred 124gr weight in 9mm, Berry's or Xtreme.
In .40cal, 165gr or better yet -- I much prefer 180gr, flat points from either Berry's or Xtreme.
At pistol velocities (and without the typical roll crimp that revolver rounds have) copper plated does a great job at mimicing jacketed bullets but at a lower cost. These days, almost ZERO indoor ranges will even allow cast lead bullets and there is also a learning curve with cast lead that make them better suited to seasoned handloaders.
Specifically, I would suggest 115 or better yet, my preferrred 124gr weight in 9mm, Berry's or Xtreme.
In .40cal, 165gr or better yet -- I much prefer 180gr, flat points from either Berry's or Xtreme.
Thanks for all the advice. I seem to be confused. I thought jacketed was the same as plated. Can some shed some light on the differences? I'll probably stick to 115 or 124, but just out of curiosity, anyone know what the 90 grain bullets are good for? I'm not sure I've ever seen those being sold by a retail ammo manufacturer.
Also as a side note, Cabelas is the only place around me that I think sells primers or powder, and I don't want to pay the price for hazardoues shipping, so I'll be going there for those two items anyways.
Also as a side note, Cabelas is the only place around me that I think sells primers or powder, and I don't want to pay the price for hazardoues shipping, so I'll be going there for those two items anyways.
90gr slugs in "9mm" or .355"-.356" are great for .380 Auto. Not great for 9mm -- in my experience, it's tough to build a load that runs the pistol properly. Others may have...
A true jacketed bullet is usually a high quality bullet, it has an actual thin (arguably so) copper jacket around a lead core. This is a more traditional and expensive product to make and really, when you stop and think... there are only (relatively) few manufacturers set up with the ability to make them. In handguns... Nosler, Sierra and Hornady are big players and make fantanstic jacketed bullets. If price were no object, any bullet from those guys gives you a terrific bullet.
Plated bullets on the other hand are basically soft swaged lead slugs -- very close to final size, and then dipped in an acid bath of electrically charged liquid and copper is drawn to them in a chemical & electrical process. End result is an ultra-thin layer of plating so thin that it's less than the thickness of a piece of paper. But in your gun barrel, it offers relatively hard resistance (compared to a swaged or even cast lead) slug and so we tend to load them as if they were true jacketed -- but only to a point.
The plating has it's limits. Too much speed and the bullet wants to come apart under pressure. For the same reasons (thinness of the plating) you must be careful when using them in revolver rounds that make use of a solid roll crimp. A normal/decent and productive roll crimp on a magnum revolver round with a true jacketed bullet will typically slice through the plating of a low-cost plated bullet.
A true jacketed bullet is usually a high quality bullet, it has an actual thin (arguably so) copper jacket around a lead core. This is a more traditional and expensive product to make and really, when you stop and think... there are only (relatively) few manufacturers set up with the ability to make them. In handguns... Nosler, Sierra and Hornady are big players and make fantanstic jacketed bullets. If price were no object, any bullet from those guys gives you a terrific bullet.
Plated bullets on the other hand are basically soft swaged lead slugs -- very close to final size, and then dipped in an acid bath of electrically charged liquid and copper is drawn to them in a chemical & electrical process. End result is an ultra-thin layer of plating so thin that it's less than the thickness of a piece of paper. But in your gun barrel, it offers relatively hard resistance (compared to a swaged or even cast lead) slug and so we tend to load them as if they were true jacketed -- but only to a point.
The plating has it's limits. Too much speed and the bullet wants to come apart under pressure. For the same reasons (thinness of the plating) you must be careful when using them in revolver rounds that make use of a solid roll crimp. A normal/decent and productive roll crimp on a magnum revolver round with a true jacketed bullet will typically slice through the plating of a low-cost plated bullet.
Simple explanation.
Plated is very very thin and cheaper than jacketed.
Lead is usually cheapest. Lead is cheaper than plated or jacketed.
Lead might give you leading problems on the inside of your barrel. Not too serious you'll just have more work to do scrubbing the lead out of the barrel after shooting. Since you're kind of new take the advice of the folk before me wait till you're more experienced to try lead.
Jacketed is the most expensive but probably the easiest or most fool proof to load. Plated with its thin plating you have to worry about crimping too tight and cutting the plating.
I'd go jacketed at first and then try the other stuff but it's not a big deal and if you go plated or lead I sure wouldn't take it personally.
Plated is very very thin and cheaper than jacketed.
Lead is usually cheapest. Lead is cheaper than plated or jacketed.
Lead might give you leading problems on the inside of your barrel. Not too serious you'll just have more work to do scrubbing the lead out of the barrel after shooting. Since you're kind of new take the advice of the folk before me wait till you're more experienced to try lead.
Jacketed is the most expensive but probably the easiest or most fool proof to load. Plated with its thin plating you have to worry about crimping too tight and cutting the plating.
I'd go jacketed at first and then try the other stuff but it's not a big deal and if you go plated or lead I sure wouldn't take it personally.
Thanks for the information. It's funny, I've been shooting for maybe 2 years now, but lately while trying to get more involved, I realize just how little I know about the hobby. I have one more question. I know with cast bullets that people lube them first, do I need to lube plated or jacketed as well? Thanks.
My two cents...
Lead
Besides the aforementioned, lead also usually smokes quite a bit due to the bullet lube that is required in the loading process. This is quite annoying indoors or outdoors without a breeze.
Plated
You can save quite a bit of money on plated bullets. Xtreme (http://www.xtremebullets.com) claims that their bullets are plated thicker than others. I've seen a few reports of people who have cut the bullets lengthwise and verified that it is reasonably thick. This allows you to push the bullet a little faster than others. You can also get the good rate per bullet without having to buy 4K+ as you do with other manufacturers. I have found them to be very consistent on weight, OAL, and diameter.
Jacketed
Jacketed are great for all the reasons mentioned. However, I would highly recommend Montana Gold bullets. I used them before I switched over to Xtreme, and found them to be great quality at a lower price than Berry's and other recognized jacketed bullets. However, to get the low prices, you are looking at buying larger quantities. Even if you are only buying a few hundred at a time, their prices in the lower quantities will probably beat the other brand names.
Personally I've loaded mostly 124gr 9mm. If you are trying to knock down steel, it has the umph, and slows the gun down a little bit on the recoil.
Have fun, go slow, and ask questions while you are learning to reload.
Fly
Lead
Besides the aforementioned, lead also usually smokes quite a bit due to the bullet lube that is required in the loading process. This is quite annoying indoors or outdoors without a breeze.
Plated
You can save quite a bit of money on plated bullets. Xtreme (http://www.xtremebullets.com) claims that their bullets are plated thicker than others. I've seen a few reports of people who have cut the bullets lengthwise and verified that it is reasonably thick. This allows you to push the bullet a little faster than others. You can also get the good rate per bullet without having to buy 4K+ as you do with other manufacturers. I have found them to be very consistent on weight, OAL, and diameter.
Jacketed
Jacketed are great for all the reasons mentioned. However, I would highly recommend Montana Gold bullets. I used them before I switched over to Xtreme, and found them to be great quality at a lower price than Berry's and other recognized jacketed bullets. However, to get the low prices, you are looking at buying larger quantities. Even if you are only buying a few hundred at a time, their prices in the lower quantities will probably beat the other brand names.
Personally I've loaded mostly 124gr 9mm. If you are trying to knock down steel, it has the umph, and slows the gun down a little bit on the recoil.
Have fun, go slow, and ask questions while you are learning to reload.
Fly
The only folks that lube cast lead bullets are those who do the casting process themselves. That is a whole secondary hobby to handloading.
If you purchase commercially cast lead bullets (usually in boxes of 500), these will arrive to you already lubed as part of the manufacturing process.
Cast bullets can be a FANTASTIC slug for the right people in the right place, but IMO, they are at their best for advanced handloaders and also when tuned specific to a firearm as opposed to making one load and expecting great performance in MANY different handguns.
If you purchase commercially cast lead bullets (usually in boxes of 500), these will arrive to you already lubed as part of the manufacturing process.
Cast bullets can be a FANTASTIC slug for the right people in the right place, but IMO, they are at their best for advanced handloaders and also when tuned specific to a firearm as opposed to making one load and expecting great performance in MANY different handguns.
I see, I'll just focus on jacketed or plated for the time being. Just curious, while looking at prices I ran across this Everglades Ammo site. Anyone ever tried them?
Everglades Ammo
Everglades Ammo
Yes, I use Everglades jacketed projectiles for tons of different cartridges - 9mm (124's), 10mm (180's), 38/357 (125's & 158's), 44 Mag/Spl (240's), 45 ACP (185's) - yeah, every caliber I load, now that I think of it. I've only bought jacketed stuff from them. (For plated, I buy X-treme on line; or Berry's if I get a hankerin' while at my LGS. For lead, I go with Missouri Bullet Co.)
Shipping is free and you get it quickly.
So yes - Everglades gets a big thumbs-up from me.
Shipping is free and you get it quickly.
So yes - Everglades gets a big thumbs-up from me.
Please look at bullets from Montana Bullets. They used to be somewhat less expensive than other jacketed bullets, but now I'm not so sure they are. In any case, and given you haven't said anything about what you want the bullets to do (that I've read), I've found their products for 40 and 45 cal to be excellent, and gorgeous.
I've loaded maybe 1,000 or so plated bullets and some did okay, others didn't, all from the same manufacturer. I have no idea whether the fact they were plated had anything to do with their performance, or whether I happened to choose crappy loads for them. I never got a good result--I used Rainier exclusively for plated. Got better results casting my own.
I don't think I've ever found a load that sucked using Hornady XTP's, but I think you'd have to be nuts or stupid rich to shoot them routinely for plinking and paper. I load them to the wall for carry loads and have no doubt they'll raise a real stink if they hit what I think I'm aiming at. I base a lot of my opinion on folks who hunt, I don't, and it seems the XTPs have more or less nailed it for terminal effects.
If I wanted to buy bullets that a) were beautiful, b) consistently accurate, and c) weren't just over-the-top expensive, then Montana Gold. An incredible product. Here we are in 10mm Auto...
If you actually want to shoot a lot, then my recommendation is to learn to cast your own. You'll have all the accuracy any bullet can provide, at about 1/10 to 1/8 the cost per bullet. Break-even on your investment in gear will happen in about the first few casting sessions. Roughly $0.03-0.04 per bullet as your recurring cost. Say you spend $300-500 on gear over several months, and you can do the break-even math using how much you shoot. I broke even the first night of casting, 5 years ago. Your results may vary.
I won't lie. Some folks just love casting bullets and getting all fussy over little nits. I don't. I hate casting bullets. But, I also hate mowing the lawn and chopping vegetables for a salad. But when the work is done, the rewards are great. There is really nothing, for a shooter, quite like sitting back with your nicely mowed lawn and your lovely salad...and a cool beverage...and looking at a thousand beautiful bullets made the night before for 30 bucks, that are little works of art. Nerd? Yup. Get to shoot a lot and still retire? Yup.
I've loaded maybe 1,000 or so plated bullets and some did okay, others didn't, all from the same manufacturer. I have no idea whether the fact they were plated had anything to do with their performance, or whether I happened to choose crappy loads for them. I never got a good result--I used Rainier exclusively for plated. Got better results casting my own.
I don't think I've ever found a load that sucked using Hornady XTP's, but I think you'd have to be nuts or stupid rich to shoot them routinely for plinking and paper. I load them to the wall for carry loads and have no doubt they'll raise a real stink if they hit what I think I'm aiming at. I base a lot of my opinion on folks who hunt, I don't, and it seems the XTPs have more or less nailed it for terminal effects.
If I wanted to buy bullets that a) were beautiful, b) consistently accurate, and c) weren't just over-the-top expensive, then Montana Gold. An incredible product. Here we are in 10mm Auto...
If you actually want to shoot a lot, then my recommendation is to learn to cast your own. You'll have all the accuracy any bullet can provide, at about 1/10 to 1/8 the cost per bullet. Break-even on your investment in gear will happen in about the first few casting sessions. Roughly $0.03-0.04 per bullet as your recurring cost. Say you spend $300-500 on gear over several months, and you can do the break-even math using how much you shoot. I broke even the first night of casting, 5 years ago. Your results may vary.
I won't lie. Some folks just love casting bullets and getting all fussy over little nits. I don't. I hate casting bullets. But, I also hate mowing the lawn and chopping vegetables for a salad. But when the work is done, the rewards are great. There is really nothing, for a shooter, quite like sitting back with your nicely mowed lawn and your lovely salad...and a cool beverage...and looking at a thousand beautiful bullets made the night before for 30 bucks, that are little works of art. Nerd? Yup. Get to shoot a lot and still retire? Yup.
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Montana Gold is the same price I was paying pre-panic. Mind you, to get the best pricing, I'm looking at a case of 3,750 bullets. A case of 124gr FMJ is $350 (free shipping) which is about $0.10/bullet. I did a lot of searching for the best price for a good jacketed bullet, and I could not find any better. Now if you are not loading high quantities, then Montana Gold may not be the best price.
Fly
Fly
Thanks everyone for all of the information. I'm still looking for what bullets I'll buy/use in the long run, but tonight I had a little extra cash while at Cabelas getting some powder (HP-38), and decided to pick up some Remington plated 115gr. RN and some Hornady XTP 124gr, both pretty cheap. It didn't take long after I got home to hit a snag- I can't find any load data for the Remington bullets. Is it a really specific science, or will a load data for another 115gr RN work?
^Good advice.
One thing I often say about published load data is that it can be helpful to keep in mind exactly what published data is -- and what it is not.
Published data is a lab's very specific test results. And they include a lot of very specific information because it is relevant and useful information. They do NOT include every detail because you must follow every detail. They simply include it because it makes sense to include it.
What published data is not is a strict instruction sheet that has to be followed verbatim.
That means your best bet with finding and attempting loads means that you take multiple published sources and you fit your components in to the equation.
Mentioned above was COL. (I call it COAL)
Hugely important... next post.
One thing I often say about published load data is that it can be helpful to keep in mind exactly what published data is -- and what it is not.
Published data is a lab's very specific test results. And they include a lot of very specific information because it is relevant and useful information. They do NOT include every detail because you must follow every detail. They simply include it because it makes sense to include it.
What published data is not is a strict instruction sheet that has to be followed verbatim.
That means your best bet with finding and attempting loads means that you take multiple published sources and you fit your components in to the equation.
Mentioned above was COL. (I call it COAL)
Hugely important... next post.
In handguns rounds and ESPECIALLY in smallish sized high pressure pistol rounds, COAL is extremely important. Actually... COAL is an "easy" way for us to get a handle on what is crucial -- and that is the internal space for combustion.
A mathematician may wish to know the exact space inside there but what we are really concerned with is that it is a safe & relatively consistent amount of space.
If we take a load that we know works well exactly where we have it and then we (radically) shorten the COAL... we have to keep in mind that pressure will rise quickly when the combustion space shrinks.
This happens in all handgun rounds, but this is amplified in small cases running high pressure. So... .38 Special? A little. .45 ACP? More. .380 Auto? MORE. But 9mm and .40cal? BIG TIME.
9 and .40 run the same pressure as .357 Magnum. And they do it in less than half of the combustion space.
So COAL is critical. When you read published data, compare the COAL of what you're building to what the data shows. If you are using a very similar bullet, know going in that your pressure may be higher than the published data if you're doing it in a smaller space.
Keep very good notes on what you build -- on everything you make. This way, if it's successful, you can replicate it. And perhaps more helpful... if it stinks, you can hopefully prevent yourself from repeating it.
A mathematician may wish to know the exact space inside there but what we are really concerned with is that it is a safe & relatively consistent amount of space.
If we take a load that we know works well exactly where we have it and then we (radically) shorten the COAL... we have to keep in mind that pressure will rise quickly when the combustion space shrinks.
This happens in all handgun rounds, but this is amplified in small cases running high pressure. So... .38 Special? A little. .45 ACP? More. .380 Auto? MORE. But 9mm and .40cal? BIG TIME.
9 and .40 run the same pressure as .357 Magnum. And they do it in less than half of the combustion space.
So COAL is critical. When you read published data, compare the COAL of what you're building to what the data shows. If you are using a very similar bullet, know going in that your pressure may be higher than the published data if you're doing it in a smaller space.
Keep very good notes on what you build -- on everything you make. This way, if it's successful, you can replicate it. And perhaps more helpful... if it stinks, you can hopefully prevent yourself from repeating it.