hi i'm new here. i've been lurking around for several weeks and i really like this place and i really learned a lot from what i have read. i bought my first gun this weekend and took it out to the range to practise with it like the manual said. however, i'm having trouble shooting it straight. i was told that if i line up the three dots even in a row, i should be able to hit my target but it seems that the bullets are going low and to the left and i guess that i'm not doing something right. when i point at the target, where should the middle dot be? i've been lining it up directly on the X and i've been hitting low. should i line it up a little above the X so that the barrel is lined up with the X? this seemed to work but the bullets were still going to the left. also, while this approach worked well at 25 feet, when i tried to move the target further out to 35 and 50 feet, i was barely hitting the paper no matter where i pointed. i shot 300 bullets so i thought that i would be getting better but i wasn't. i read that beretta is a very good gun so i guess that i'm doing something wrong but i'm not sure what. can anyone help? i dont know any other shooter and i was going to ask some of the people around me at the range but they looked like they didn't want to be disturbed and i didn't want to bother them. thanx.
first post / how to shoot straight
- Thread starter Ward S
- Start date
congrats on your fist gun purchase. is it a beretta 92FS? that was one of my first pistols as well.
first off move the target in some. start practicing with the target closer in. when you get good at that move it farther away.
do not try to compensate for hitting low left by moving the sights high right. the sights are lined up properly but you are doing what most beginners will do. your flinching. you are anticipating the recoil and right before the gun goes off you are pulling it down and too the left. also you may not be sqeezing the trigger but pulling on it hard. just pull the trigger back slowly and with even pressure. don't think about when the gun will go off just sqeeze the trigger.
another good thing to do is to buy some snap caps and dry fire at home. do everything as you would at the range but be sure the gun is only loades with snap caps. then practice pulling the trigger. also at the range load the magazine with a snap cap somewhere in the middle of it. when it is chambered you shouldn't know if its a real round or the snap cap. when you pull the trigger on the snap cap you will see the gun dive down and to the left.
the only cure for this is practice, practice, and more practice.
[This message has been edited by Russell92 (edited June 19, 2000).]
first off move the target in some. start practicing with the target closer in. when you get good at that move it farther away.
do not try to compensate for hitting low left by moving the sights high right. the sights are lined up properly but you are doing what most beginners will do. your flinching. you are anticipating the recoil and right before the gun goes off you are pulling it down and too the left. also you may not be sqeezing the trigger but pulling on it hard. just pull the trigger back slowly and with even pressure. don't think about when the gun will go off just sqeeze the trigger.
another good thing to do is to buy some snap caps and dry fire at home. do everything as you would at the range but be sure the gun is only loades with snap caps. then practice pulling the trigger. also at the range load the magazine with a snap cap somewhere in the middle of it. when it is chambered you shouldn't know if its a real round or the snap cap. when you pull the trigger on the snap cap you will see the gun dive down and to the left.
the only cure for this is practice, practice, and more practice.
[This message has been edited by Russell92 (edited June 19, 2000).]
Welcome to TFL Ward S! I think you'll like it here.
Russell92 is right on target, so to speak. You are experiencing the classic "flerk". A flinch combined with jerking the trigger. The shots at 7 o'clock are a sure give away.
As for asking for help from other shooters, I think you may be surprised at the response you'll get. In general, most shooters will go out of their way to help newcomers to the sport. Go ahead and give it a try. At worst you will just get a "no" and so you go ask someone else. Or you can and probably should seek out a professional instructor. An hour with him/her is worth its weight in lead.
Russell92 is right on target, so to speak. You are experiencing the classic "flerk". A flinch combined with jerking the trigger. The shots at 7 o'clock are a sure give away.
As for asking for help from other shooters, I think you may be surprised at the response you'll get. In general, most shooters will go out of their way to help newcomers to the sport. Go ahead and give it a try. At worst you will just get a "no" and so you go ask someone else. Or you can and probably should seek out a professional instructor. An hour with him/her is worth its weight in lead.
Congratulations on your purchase and welcome. This is a great community.
Always think about safety. Every time you pick up your gun, check it for a chambered round. Every Single Time. Never, ever point it at something you're not willing to destroy or kill. Never.
Move your target in to five yards and move it out incrementally. Eventually, start to practice at different ranges, like 5, 10 and 15 yards.
Rest your hands and wrists on the steadiest thing available, like a bench or big rock. Line up the sights exactly and squeeze the trigger slowly, concentrating _only_ on your sight picture. This should let you know that your sights are OK, and that it is the movements of your hand and finger muscles that are being transferred to the gun when you make the shot.
To see if you are flinching, randomly load some snap caps or dummy rounds in your mags along with your live rounds and see what happens when you shoot.
Check these out:
[Link to invalid post]
[Link to invalid post]
[Link to invalid post]
Finally, be safe. Store your gun locked when you are away from it. Don't show it around (except around here
) or let your friends or neighbors know where you keep it.
[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited June 19, 2000).]
Always think about safety. Every time you pick up your gun, check it for a chambered round. Every Single Time. Never, ever point it at something you're not willing to destroy or kill. Never.
Move your target in to five yards and move it out incrementally. Eventually, start to practice at different ranges, like 5, 10 and 15 yards.
Rest your hands and wrists on the steadiest thing available, like a bench or big rock. Line up the sights exactly and squeeze the trigger slowly, concentrating _only_ on your sight picture. This should let you know that your sights are OK, and that it is the movements of your hand and finger muscles that are being transferred to the gun when you make the shot.
To see if you are flinching, randomly load some snap caps or dummy rounds in your mags along with your live rounds and see what happens when you shoot.
Check these out:
[Link to invalid post]
[Link to invalid post]
[Link to invalid post]
Finally, be safe. Store your gun locked when you are away from it. Don't show it around (except around here
) or let your friends or neighbors know where you keep it.[This message has been edited by Ledbetter (edited June 19, 2000).]
Ward S:
I am a new shooter as well and have experienced the exact problem (low & left) you are having. I am still working on it and really believe it is anticipation of the shot (flinch, as others have described) that does it. To prove that to myself, after firing a mag or 2 at the target (with typical low/left results), I dry fired (it's a Glock) at the target just as I would if it had live rounds in it. It was amazing how much my entire hand was moving with the pull of the trigger. Dry firing after shooting live rounds put my mind in "shooting mode" and I was able to recreate the actual body reaction to a live shot. When I dry fire at home I don't always see the flinch effect because I know it is not a live round. Try alternating live rounds and dry fires at the range and see if you are indeed flinching.
As I said, I am still working on the problem. It seems to be a mind over matter problem, or a question of just training your muscles through lots and lots of practice. Or maybe a combination of both. BTW, low/left seems to be a common beginner's problem. I didn't adjust my sites because I was sure it was my fault and my little experiment proved it. Besides, I get the same results with two different guns (Beretta and Glock) so it is definitely me. Good luck--I know the feeling!
I am a new shooter as well and have experienced the exact problem (low & left) you are having. I am still working on it and really believe it is anticipation of the shot (flinch, as others have described) that does it. To prove that to myself, after firing a mag or 2 at the target (with typical low/left results), I dry fired (it's a Glock) at the target just as I would if it had live rounds in it. It was amazing how much my entire hand was moving with the pull of the trigger. Dry firing after shooting live rounds put my mind in "shooting mode" and I was able to recreate the actual body reaction to a live shot. When I dry fire at home I don't always see the flinch effect because I know it is not a live round. Try alternating live rounds and dry fires at the range and see if you are indeed flinching.
As I said, I am still working on the problem. It seems to be a mind over matter problem, or a question of just training your muscles through lots and lots of practice. Or maybe a combination of both. BTW, low/left seems to be a common beginner's problem. I didn't adjust my sites because I was sure it was my fault and my little experiment proved it. Besides, I get the same results with two different guns (Beretta and Glock) so it is definitely me. Good luck--I know the feeling!
Generally you won't try to flinch the very first shot. So I try to get my mind to feel as though every shot is the first shot. Relax, and pretend not to worry what happens after I pull the trigger. Also I agree. Bring the target way in. Start shooting at the 10 feet range. People like to see the results right away. This will tell you where you are putting them. Dry fire a lot, or get a pellet gun. Practice hitting with it. Every first shot after that should be right on target. Then you need to get over the recoil, and all your shots will line up.
If you are like me you don't really believe that you are flinching, I know that I didn't believe that I would be doing something like that with this little gun.
Try throwing a full mag worth of cartridges into a pile. Take out one or two and replace them with snap caps (they are normally red, we use them for practice). Load the magazine without looking. Then look to make sure that the top cartridge isn't one of snaps caps.
The next time you get to go shooting save that magazine for the third or fourth change. Shoot that one rapid fire, I bet I know what you'll see, and it'll be the same thing that I did.
Luck
Jim B
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**P.P.L.L.**
Try throwing a full mag worth of cartridges into a pile. Take out one or two and replace them with snap caps (they are normally red, we use them for practice). Load the magazine without looking. Then look to make sure that the top cartridge isn't one of snaps caps.
The next time you get to go shooting save that magazine for the third or fourth change. Shoot that one rapid fire, I bet I know what you'll see, and it'll be the same thing that I did.
Luck
Jim B
------------------
**P.P.L.L.**
Not to take away from what others have said about flinch/jerk, but do not expect that your sights will be perfectly adjusted "out of the box." Its normal for the sights to need some adjustment. You can either pay a gunsmith to adjust them (bring some targets)or you can, if you feel up to it.
The following assumes you have a fixed front sight, and a 'drift adjustable" rear sight--the most common configuration. If you have fully-adjustable rear sights this would all be easier.
Adjusting "windage" (right/left) is a matter of tapping the rear sight (with a punch or some tool, not directly with a hammer!) to make it move in its groove. Move the sight opposite the direction you want the bullets to move. In other words, if you are hitting too far to the left, and want to move the point of impact to the right, tap your rear sight to the left (as you look at the sights from the rear of the gun).
Adjusting "elevation" (up/down) is a matter of filing the front sight (lowering it) to move the point of impact down. There isn't much you can do to move the point of impact up, except to put in a taller front sight.
If you are squeamish about filing on your new gun, see a gunsmith. Shouldn't cost more than $35-70 bucks.
But do this AFTER you're convinced that its the sights that need adjusting, and not your flinch or your hold.
The following assumes you have a fixed front sight, and a 'drift adjustable" rear sight--the most common configuration. If you have fully-adjustable rear sights this would all be easier.
Adjusting "windage" (right/left) is a matter of tapping the rear sight (with a punch or some tool, not directly with a hammer!) to make it move in its groove. Move the sight opposite the direction you want the bullets to move. In other words, if you are hitting too far to the left, and want to move the point of impact to the right, tap your rear sight to the left (as you look at the sights from the rear of the gun).
Adjusting "elevation" (up/down) is a matter of filing the front sight (lowering it) to move the point of impact down. There isn't much you can do to move the point of impact up, except to put in a taller front sight.
If you are squeamish about filing on your new gun, see a gunsmith. Shouldn't cost more than $35-70 bucks.
But do this AFTER you're convinced that its the sights that need adjusting, and not your flinch or your hold.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
A good way to defeat the anticipation that makes you flinch is this:
Bring a friend to the range with you. Have him/her load the pistol for you for each shot. At random, have the friend drop the mag before pulling the slide back (thus not chamberring a round) and sometimes having the magazine inserted and chamberring a round. You won't know wether or not you are about fire a real round and if you flinch too much, you will look real funny when it just goes click. It is supposed to work well but it gets time consuming. Welcome to TFL and let us know how you do!
Bring a friend to the range with you. Have him/her load the pistol for you for each shot. At random, have the friend drop the mag before pulling the slide back (thus not chamberring a round) and sometimes having the magazine inserted and chamberring a round. You won't know wether or not you are about fire a real round and if you flinch too much, you will look real funny when it just goes click. It is supposed to work well but it gets time consuming. Welcome to TFL and let us know how you do!
The best thing I can do for you is to direct you toward this thread at Glocktalk entitled "Breaking a Habit"
http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum4/HTML/000367.html
More than advice about "ball and dummy drills" or "dry fire" the instruction in this thread, particularly from Dean G., helped me more than anything I have ever read or been told. It's a long thread, but worth your time.
http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum4/HTML/000367.html
More than advice about "ball and dummy drills" or "dry fire" the instruction in this thread, particularly from Dean G., helped me more than anything I have ever read or been told. It's a long thread, but worth your time.
thanks to everyone for their help? just one more question. as i'm trying to overcome this flitching problem, where should i line up the front dot? on the X? above the X so that the barrel is lined up with the X? or, below the X so that the barrel will line up with the X when the gun kicks? thanks again.
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
Put all 3 dots in a straight line and have your target resting on top of the center dot.
Young Buck
Inactive
Welcome to the forum! this is also my first post. I know that I have gained proficiency with my 38 by (don't do this if you're not alone, it tends to frighten onlookers) simply picking it up at home and aligning the sight picture. Hold it for a few seconds ( somewhere like 10?) and put it back down. I don't know if it'll work for you, but it did for me.
~~Young buck
Ahh, also, this may help in higher-stress sitruations (I've never been in one myself) if you can memorize it. This point has been brought up in various martial arts articles. practice enough, and you will do it almost instinctively.
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To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.
~~Young buck
Ahh, also, this may help in higher-stress sitruations (I've never been in one myself) if you can memorize it. This point has been brought up in various martial arts articles. practice enough, and you will do it almost instinctively.
------------------
To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.
PreserveFreedom has the right answer on the sight picture, Ward. If you have 3-dot sights, here's what it should look like:
________
|o| |o| |o| <-- your sights
Sit the 'X' ring right on top of the bar of the sights...not the 'x', sit the whole ring on the sights.
Keep the top of the sights (front and rear) completely even, that will set your elevation (vertical). You will see thin rails of light (vertically) between the rear posts and the front post, on either side of the front post. Align the sights so that the rails of light are the same width, that will set your 'windage' (left-right, horizontal).
Keep your mind on the sights, focus on the FRONT SIGHT only. let the rear sights and the target blur. When the sight picture is perfect, the target 'x' ring is a blurry full moon perched on the top of the sights, smoothly and evenly squuueeeze the trigger. Once you start to squeeze (don't pull it...squeeze it), don't stop. Don't squeeze faster or slower as the trigger travels towards you....just nice and firm and even and smooooth. Don't let your mind wander to the trigger as you squeeze it. Think of nothing but the sight picture during the whole process.
When the weapon goes off, if you've done everything correctly, it'll startle you. That's a good thing. It means you didn't anticipate the weapon recoiling...that will go a long way toward neutralizing your flinch and sending the round where you want it to go.
Keep the paper close (5-7yards or less) and don't worry about where you're striking the paper as much as how tight the group is. As long as your rounds are striking the paper in the same place every time (and the group is tight), you're not learning any bad habits and a little hands-on instruction (or sight adjustment - let a pro handle that) will put them in the X ring.
- gabe
PS: SAFETY FIRST %100. Learn the basic rules of firearm safety and tattoo them on your brain. Insist all those you shoot with know and practice them. You're not actually shooting at the target, you're shooting at the backstop...the target just happens to be in between the weapon and the backstop.
If safety is first then what's 2nd? HAVE FUN!!
Damn ASCII art!!
[This message has been edited by GRD (edited June 20, 2000).]
________
|o| |o| |o| <-- your sights
Sit the 'X' ring right on top of the bar of the sights...not the 'x', sit the whole ring on the sights.
Keep the top of the sights (front and rear) completely even, that will set your elevation (vertical). You will see thin rails of light (vertically) between the rear posts and the front post, on either side of the front post. Align the sights so that the rails of light are the same width, that will set your 'windage' (left-right, horizontal).
Keep your mind on the sights, focus on the FRONT SIGHT only. let the rear sights and the target blur. When the sight picture is perfect, the target 'x' ring is a blurry full moon perched on the top of the sights, smoothly and evenly squuueeeze the trigger. Once you start to squeeze (don't pull it...squeeze it), don't stop. Don't squeeze faster or slower as the trigger travels towards you....just nice and firm and even and smooooth. Don't let your mind wander to the trigger as you squeeze it. Think of nothing but the sight picture during the whole process.
When the weapon goes off, if you've done everything correctly, it'll startle you. That's a good thing. It means you didn't anticipate the weapon recoiling...that will go a long way toward neutralizing your flinch and sending the round where you want it to go.
Keep the paper close (5-7yards or less) and don't worry about where you're striking the paper as much as how tight the group is. As long as your rounds are striking the paper in the same place every time (and the group is tight), you're not learning any bad habits and a little hands-on instruction (or sight adjustment - let a pro handle that) will put them in the X ring.
- gabe
PS: SAFETY FIRST %100. Learn the basic rules of firearm safety and tattoo them on your brain. Insist all those you shoot with know and practice them. You're not actually shooting at the target, you're shooting at the backstop...the target just happens to be in between the weapon and the backstop.
If safety is first then what's 2nd? HAVE FUN!!
Damn ASCII art!!
[This message has been edited by GRD (edited June 20, 2000).]
Eric of IN
New member
Ward,
Welcome to TFL. You can get a target that will tell you what you are doing wrong from www.sportshooter.com. They also have a variety of other dowloadable targets.
Eric
------------------
Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Welcome to TFL. You can get a target that will tell you what you are doing wrong from www.sportshooter.com. They also have a variety of other dowloadable targets.
Eric
------------------
Formerly Puddle Pirate.
Teach a kid to shoot.
It annoys the antis.
Welcome!
Suggest you join your local USPSA club go to www.uspsa.org 'club-finder') and get much advice and practice there.
You will have an opportunity to shoot more there than anywhere!
------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
Suggest you join your local USPSA club go to www.uspsa.org 'club-finder') and get much advice and practice there.
You will have an opportunity to shoot more there than anywhere!
------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"