First Long Rifle

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PlatinumCore16

New member
So I grew up not really hunting until I was a little older (maybe 14?) but my grandfather had a .22 and a 16ga that I did put some use into prior to hunting. When I grageeated high school I got a Mosin 91/30 because it was a large caliber and cheap. Also a gun that I can run over and it will still keep kicking and ammo can be* cheap. I grew up in NY so when I was 21 got my pistol permit (my county did either concealed carry or nothing, so I got concealed carry) and a Taurus PT709 Slim, partially because I was worried about gun laws and the way things were headed and partially because I think that I would be more safe with a firearm on me. After graduating college and moving out west, I now own a 12ga for home defense and the lady is getting herself a Bersa 380.

*Bulk milsurp ammo is pretty friggin cheap as far as large caliber bullets go, but the majority of them use Berdan primers and yes they just take some extra cleaning to get out of the rifle, but if you REALLY want to avoid them, the cost of ammo comes back up.

Now I want my own gun that I'm not buying just because it "seems" like the right thing to do, or because it's all I can afford, or because it's what's available, or because I would like some extra insurance on my safety. I would like a gun that I can target shoot with or even hunt with, if I so chose, but my life would be no less/more affected if I didn't have it.

Enter the scout rifle. When I saw the Ruger GSR for the first time, I thought "That's the gun I want, just for me." Yes there are all the SHTF preppers and other folks that praise the Scout for being a utilitarian tool for every case scenario, but I liked it because it looked cool, it proved to be quite accurate on the range, and it was a large caliber rifle. I could hunt with it, drive tacks with it, or just hang it up in my hunting lodge to look good on the wall (only whilst I was there of course and not out using it in the field). Now that was back when I had no money at all and I hadn't even thought about a Mosin yet. I have my utilitarian rifle, I just want something for fun, but if I can accomplish multiple objectives with the same rifle, all the better for my wallet.

My brother got himself a Savage model 10 and he loves it. It's accurate, it was affordable, and it has been reliable for him. Personally I want a rifle that is also accurate, reliable, chambered for 30-06, synthetic or laminate stock, and stainless steel barrel. Magazine isn't really a factor and barrel length, while I realize a longer barrel will result in (usually) better accuracy/higher muzzle velocity, I don't too much care if it's 18 inches or 26. As long as it's between there, I'm good. The Savage 116 seems like the best fit. I've looked into the Ruger American, Rem 700, Mossberg Patriot, Ruger M77, Winchester 70, Weatherby Vanguard, and Tikka, and I think the Savage makes the most sense for me. However, Savage also makes their 11 Scout. Previous versions came with stainless steel barrels, but I like the newer sights and the adjustable cheek rest.
Edit: forgot to mention, the Scout comes in .308 only. Now I'm not against the .308, I just think that the 30-06 is more adjustable. The longer cartridge opens up higher velocities and, potentially, longer ranges. I'm not trying to make the mile-long-shot, but I think that anything the .308 can accomplish, the 30-06 can do, and then some.

As you see I'm at a bit of an impasse. Do I go with the Savage 116 or the Savage Scout? I'm hoping that Savage has plans to release a SS barreled scout this year, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. I contacted their customer service to see how much a SS bbl Scout would be, but I'm not optimistic. Forgot to mention that I am looking to keep the rifle under $700. Hopefully with a scope, too, but best case scenario is out of the gunshop under $1k for the rifle, scope, and all the accessories I'd like(stock bullet holder, sling, bipod, case, bullets).

Any help here would be appreciated and don't feel bad for offering other rifle options. I'm not completely dead set on Savage, but these two models seem to fit my price range and other parameters.

Thanks in advance,
Platinum
 
If your conundrum between the 2 comes down to it being chambered in .308 or 30-06, I have to ask one question.

Do you handload your own ammo?

If not, then there isn't a nickels worth of difference between the 2 when it comes to readily available commercial ammo. I actually give the .308 the edge in factory ammo. You can find excellent quality match ammo for fine target shooting to excellent quality hunting ammo and everything in between.

The velocity compared to most commercial 30-06 will be near the same or greater in some cases.

If you handload, go for 30-06 if you're concerned with it doing what the .308 can do but "better"
If you don't handload, my vote would be .308 in either rifle.
 
If you were me, you would be looking at second-hand model 70 Winchesters, probably the Classic Sporter or pre-'64, perhaps Featherweight. Furthermore, it would be a toss-up between 30-'06 and 270 Winchester. Also, it would be Walnut and blued steel, but then, you're not me.

Gee, I forgot to say Leupold. Probaby 3-9x40.
 
Buy the rifle you like and fits you the most. 308 and 30-06 aren't far enough off each other to care.

Both animals or targets on the other side won't know the difference.
 
Thanks for all the tips.

Precision, I do not hand load, but I hope to when I eventually get a house of my own. For now, my brother does back east and he sends me stuff occasionally. He could hand load either caliber.

The question I'm really still trying to answer is the stainless vs. blued. All the research I've done states that if I take care of a blued barrel, it will last just fine. However if I'm on a week or two long, backpacking and tent hunting trip during monsoon season, I'm worried about being able to keep a blued barrel dry when I won't even be able to keep the tent dry.

Any thoughts/experience on the matter? A lot of discussions on the internet are mostly opinions and preference. But I'm talking about the viability of a rifle for a specific event/circumstances.
 
I have rifle in both steels, but lately use the Stainless ones more often. The main reason is probably because they are my favorites, but I like that I can hunt in the rain and drizzle and not worry about rust. But, to be fair to the metal choices, my Dad hunted for 25 years with a Ruger UL in 270 and he didn't spend much time at all on wiping it down with an oily rag. It was missing some bluing and was fairly beat up, but still shot like a champ.
 
Stainless looks nice and if you can find it and it's in your budget go for it.

But Blued is no deal breaker. Remington makes sealed wipes you can carry with you. After a good trip I usually remove the stocks from rifles and wipe them down with Breakfree CLP.

I have a Mossberg 500 that gets caught a lot in the rain hunting waterfowl and after 20 years it has a rust spot on it from sitting in the gun cabinet not being used when I was in college. Should be he safest place and wasn't.
 
I am going to go at this a bit different.

First, its not a criticism, but if you are going to get into the arena and want to be happy, you need to define your primary goal, what make you happy, the hunting possibility or the target shooting.

What is great for one is not that good for another though there is a mid choice option that does both pretty good.

For target a heavy barrel and longish (24 to 26) is the first choice as that is what works best. We are talking about a 12 lb gun here (bull barrel)

For hunting, shorter and lighter is the rage though I hunted with a pretty heavy Ruger back in the day, didn't bother me but I did a lot of heavy work and not everyone has that part of being in shape to do so.

First I like Savages a whole lot and I have 3 Target guns on various 10/110 lengths (keeping in mind 116 is just a 110 variation)

I also love 30-06, my Savage 111 BTH is build in that caliber.

However, the 116 comes with a light barrel, aka pencil.

I have had two of those light Savage barrels. While I did not try to hard on the 06, hand load wise nothing I tried shot well 1.5 inch at best and not a target barrel (my take is under 3/4 MOA or 3/4 inch at 100 yds for that.

I have a 270 pencil (light) barrel I am going to try to get to shoot with hand-loads as soon as it warms up (windy and cold right now) It too was an erratic 1.5 inch (lots of cool down time)

When I began my quest for a 30-06 target, there were none to be had.

So I got the Savage 111 BTH, ordered a bull barrel and put it on and have had a great time with it. I sure would not want to carry it in the woods for hunting, even back in the day.

I do have a Savage Varmint contour barrel that shoots well when I do and have the right loads for it. That is the in between barrel choice you can hunting with and target shoot. Shorter (24 inch) make a lighter and handier hunting gun.

Unfortunately Savage in the 30-06 does not offer an in between options. You can ask if they could or would do a heavy barrel 06 but that's not a choice in any of the products they offer so probably not.

Savage offers a LOT of choices in Varmint and bull barrel in the short actions (10/11/12) but those will not be 30-06.

If I was going to go with a 308 which sounds like the better direcion and your general outline, I would go with the at Cabella Only Savage 10T. Its got a 24 inch varmint barrel, the really nice adjustable acu trigger, decent stock. On sale fairly often for $75 to 150 under the normal price of $570 or so.

Despite my like of the 30-06, I do have two 308s (one barrel goes in a while) and I like that round. The only think I would not hunt with it would be a grizzly and I don't and never did go after those.

For the most part it is as good as the 06, its only drawback is the 06 can be hand-loaded up better and the 06 is better bear gun for grizzly country is a backup with factory 220 gr bullets but that is not a common need (I never ran into one and just as happy)

Flip side is that there is a large number of bullet mfgs of target factory ammo in 308 caliber and if you don't' reload, that's the way to go. You should be able to find a load out of Hornady, Federal etc (at least 6 or 8) that shoots well.

You would have to get up to a mid level reloader before you could start to take advantage of the 06. 308 will reach 1000 yds though its not optimal out there. I hope to try it but not even close right now.

The only factory Heavier Barrel 30-06 I know is Remington 700 something (again a Cabell only) that has a Varmint type barrel on it.

I don't care for the trigger, the rest works good but it has a long chamber and its oriented to the varmint shooter that reloads.

I built the 30-06 myself and I have about $700 into it. That dos not count the tools that work with all the Savages.

Getting someone to build you one would probably be North of $1000 and that is without optics.
 
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Thanks again for the input folks.

Stitch, I agree, I like the look of stainless, but it really is a matter of preference. I've researched it up and down the internet and for those who live/work/guide in Alaska/the Pacific Northwest, stainless makes a lot of sense. And maybe the same goes for the Northeast or along the coast of Florida/Georgia. But for those of us landlocked in the middle, especially those of us who don't hunt/trek/guide for a living and don't live outside with our firearm, the blued vs. stainless is not a question of necessity or have-to. So I think I'm good on that.

RC, thank you very much for the well thought out response. You are completely right that I think that first and foremost I need to quantify my end goal. And I think that target is not it. Not that hunting is the primary goal, but having a modern rifle that can hunt well, but is also fun to shoot at the range out to 300-400 yards(the longest ranges I have around me) and be able to count on the rifle to hit a large dinner plate is really the goal. I want something that I can take on a trek that won't add significantly to my overall weight but has the mechanical accuracy to efficiently and humanly kill my target within my comfortable range, provided I do my part.
So with that being said, I think that either of them still really fits lol. The Scout is a shorter barrel, so I lose some range/energy and potentially accuracy at longer ranges, but neither the Scout nor the 116, or any similarly equipped 10/110, has a thin barrel that's going to see sub MoA groups either. Or at least I won't be trying to hit MoA or under. I've heard/read of 10/110's with the thin bbls coming out of the package real shooters holding 1 inch groups at 100 yards and just over 2 inches at 200 yards. But I think that those are probably the exception to the rule (and also quite possibly cherry picked groupings... you never know with the internet) and without purchasing a model that has a varmint barrel or a target barrel, one should not expect such accuracy.
So I end up where I'm at still, but I think that at this point I'm just going to hold them and whichever feels better and fits my wallet better is the one I'm going home with. Either way I think I'll be equally happy.

And down the road I'd like a nice, long-range gun that can hit sub MoA and at that point I'll find a good 1000yd+ range that I can try my hand at a mile-long shot. It probably won't be a .308 or even a 30-06 for that matter, but it won't matter because the purpose of the gun will be to hit things I can't see without high powered glass. Or a 10 minute walk...

Thank you all for your thoughts and time. I hope to stick around as a contributer here for some time.
 
PlatinumCore16

Two things -
1) I have two Savage .308s bolt actions that are very accurate.
My son has two - one in .308 and one in .223.
I shoot every weekend with three range buddies that own 7 more Savages.

Every one of them shot accurately out of the box without any adjustments.
Just put a scope on them and they shoot great.

I can't say the same for my Remington 700 which I eventually got to shoot accurately with a new trigger replacement and a new stock.

I doubt you can go wrong with a Savage, if that is your choice.

2) As for stainless steel barrels, we have a couple of stainless barrels among the Savages and they don't seem to copper up as much as the standard carbon steel barrels and they seem to clean up more easily. When you look at them with a bore scope. they look like they are smoother in the bore. I don't know if it makes all that much difference in accuracy, but you also don't have to worry much about scratching off the bluing.
 
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