Conservative
New member
My wife wants to go India. Can anyone inform me of the firearms regulations in India and the general attitude toward CCW? Also what problems are incountered transporting weapons between India and the USA?
Firearms in India?
- Thread starter Conservative
- Start date
Munro Williams
New member
Lot of political strife, Kashmir problem, anti-Christian violence, Muslim-Hindu violence, and one of the most corrupt systems on Earth.
I cannot imagine RKBA, but I'm sure you could bribe someone so's you could carry. As for bringing a firearm into the country, I doubt they'd let you get it out of customs, unless you grease quite a few palms.
Imagine yourself as walking down a street, stark naked, and covered with hundred dollar bills. That's third world travel.
Should your better half go to India, I'd suggest you go with her. Not that anyone would attack her, for that would be bad manners, rather to help her resist throwing away all her money on the mind-numbingly poverty striken.
But the food's pretty good.
It's a trade off between the third world annoyance factor and the thousands of years of civilization they have. Also, unimaginable poverty is a real downer.
Better you than me!!
I cannot imagine RKBA, but I'm sure you could bribe someone so's you could carry. As for bringing a firearm into the country, I doubt they'd let you get it out of customs, unless you grease quite a few palms.
Imagine yourself as walking down a street, stark naked, and covered with hundred dollar bills. That's third world travel.
Should your better half go to India, I'd suggest you go with her. Not that anyone would attack her, for that would be bad manners, rather to help her resist throwing away all her money on the mind-numbingly poverty striken.
But the food's pretty good.
It's a trade off between the third world annoyance factor and the thousands of years of civilization they have. Also, unimaginable poverty is a real downer.
Better you than me!!
Conservative
New member
I know about the violence and turmoil and we both have seen the poverty before. Thats why I want to carry.
In a post (here on TFL) that I cannot find now someone mentioned carrying in a shoulder holster in India. I want to know if they were doing so legally and if so how to get the permit. If CCW is not legal what are the penalties and how hard is it to get out of the mess if you are caught? We would be visiting the remote northern regions.
In a post (here on TFL) that I cannot find now someone mentioned carrying in a shoulder holster in India. I want to know if they were doing so legally and if so how to get the permit. If CCW is not legal what are the penalties and how hard is it to get out of the mess if you are caught? We would be visiting the remote northern regions.
I suggest you call the consulate for India. The nearest one to you is probably in Chicago. My guess is that the answer is a firm no. You are courting legal disaster by attempting to board a plane for India with a firearm checked through unless you have some serious documentation. You don't mention why your wife wants or needs to go to India. As a tourist, I say forget it. Stay home instead and visit some some of our gun-free 379 National Parks 
. If a trip to India is for business, then her employer should take responsibility for her safety and compliance with all laws while there. If they can't or won't, then don't go.
[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited May 01, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited May 01, 2000).]
. If a trip to India is for business, then her employer should take responsibility for her safety and compliance with all laws while there. If they can't or won't, then don't go. [This message has been edited by Trevor (edited May 01, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited May 01, 2000).]
I saw an article recently where a bored little rich kid in India shot up a night club with his handgun. the article went on to say that handguns are pretty much illegal to own and carry with the exception of the elite who don't have to live by the same standards as the majority of the castes. Oh! the kid ended up killing one person and wounding two others. He got a slap on the wrist as his wealthy family paid off the victims. Mark / FL
Some time back, an Indian national posted this (I think on TFL):
"I am from India, and all civilian firearms need licensing. Whats more, fully automatic weapons are completely banned, and there is no licensing provision for them.
The worst part is that one person is allowed to own only three firearms or less and each has to be different, that is, Revolver, Semiauto, Shotgun or Rifle. 9mm &.38 Spl are military calibers so civilians cannot own those, the same with .303 British, 7.62mm and 5.56mm.
The only way one can obtain a license is if you are very rich and influential and are able to show a reason to own firearms or if your a golfing buddy of the Police Commissioner.
Thank the Lord I managed to get a license a soon a I turned 21 which is extremely difficult."
"I am from India, and all civilian firearms need licensing. Whats more, fully automatic weapons are completely banned, and there is no licensing provision for them.
The worst part is that one person is allowed to own only three firearms or less and each has to be different, that is, Revolver, Semiauto, Shotgun or Rifle. 9mm &.38 Spl are military calibers so civilians cannot own those, the same with .303 British, 7.62mm and 5.56mm.
The only way one can obtain a license is if you are very rich and influential and are able to show a reason to own firearms or if your a golfing buddy of the Police Commissioner.
Thank the Lord I managed to get a license a soon a I turned 21 which is extremely difficult."
Conservative,
I am the Indian Citizen who carries in a shoulder holster and the one mentioned by Oatka. I carry legally, and have a 'All India Firearms License'.
I'll be blunt, your wife's prospects dont look too good. If conditions were more favorable, she would have to do a few things before-hand,to take a gun to India.
First, she would have to get permission from the U.S Department of Defensive Trade Controls for the temporary export of firearms by an American Citizen.(www.pmdtc.org)
Second, She would have to apply for an All India Tourist-Sport/Hunting License. It has now become illegal to hunt in India. Also for a sport license she will have to show proof of entering a competition, so I do not think it would be easy to get license.
Since the May 1998 Nuclear Tests, America has imposed an Arms Embargo on India, So until that embargo is lifted no Licenses will be approved by the American Government for the permanent export of guns( I think the same rules apply for temporary export but am not so sure).
Carrying guns into the remote Nothern regions has become very difficult, even for All India Licensees.(But check for new rules, they keep changing often)
As for carrying illegally dont even think about it, 2 years to 6 years of prison time. No amount of bribing will get you out of that. Trust me on this one, My grand father used to be the Home Minister,and then later became Governor.
If you let me know which states or cities she would be visiting, I should be able to give you more info. Also what visa is she travelling on(visitors, diplomatic, work?)
It may be possible for your contacts in India to arrange for armed security. Hope this helps.
Post here or Email me if you need more info or have questions.
Regards,
Anand
Email: anand_119@hotmail.com
I am the Indian Citizen who carries in a shoulder holster and the one mentioned by Oatka. I carry legally, and have a 'All India Firearms License'.
I'll be blunt, your wife's prospects dont look too good. If conditions were more favorable, she would have to do a few things before-hand,to take a gun to India.
First, she would have to get permission from the U.S Department of Defensive Trade Controls for the temporary export of firearms by an American Citizen.(www.pmdtc.org)
Second, She would have to apply for an All India Tourist-Sport/Hunting License. It has now become illegal to hunt in India. Also for a sport license she will have to show proof of entering a competition, so I do not think it would be easy to get license.
Since the May 1998 Nuclear Tests, America has imposed an Arms Embargo on India, So until that embargo is lifted no Licenses will be approved by the American Government for the permanent export of guns( I think the same rules apply for temporary export but am not so sure).
Carrying guns into the remote Nothern regions has become very difficult, even for All India Licensees.(But check for new rules, they keep changing often)
As for carrying illegally dont even think about it, 2 years to 6 years of prison time. No amount of bribing will get you out of that. Trust me on this one, My grand father used to be the Home Minister,and then later became Governor.
If you let me know which states or cities she would be visiting, I should be able to give you more info. Also what visa is she travelling on(visitors, diplomatic, work?)
It may be possible for your contacts in India to arrange for armed security. Hope this helps.
Post here or Email me if you need more info or have questions.
Regards,
Anand
Email: anand_119@hotmail.com
Covert Mission
New member
Thanks for the information, Anand.
As comforting as it might be to CCW in the 3rd world (as it is in the 1st and 2nd), it brings with it a host of problems and potential disasters. I've traveled extensively in some "interesting places", (usually with some sort of blade) with no gun. More hassle than it's worth. You DO NOT want to go to jail for weapons violations in these places. If it's that bad, don't go. If it's questionable, hire security or be very careful. Some places I won't go (Mexico City, Pakistan, remote Phillippines, etc) because you are just a good target, either economically or politically.
Conservative: There's a GREAT Indian restaurant near my house in LA. Let me know if you want the number.
PS: I have both friends and acquaintances who either live in India or visit frequently. None has ever had a real problem. Use your head, and you'll be fine.
[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited May 01, 2000).]
As comforting as it might be to CCW in the 3rd world (as it is in the 1st and 2nd), it brings with it a host of problems and potential disasters. I've traveled extensively in some "interesting places", (usually with some sort of blade) with no gun. More hassle than it's worth. You DO NOT want to go to jail for weapons violations in these places. If it's that bad, don't go. If it's questionable, hire security or be very careful. Some places I won't go (Mexico City, Pakistan, remote Phillippines, etc) because you are just a good target, either economically or politically.
Conservative: There's a GREAT Indian restaurant near my house in LA. Let me know if you want the number.
PS: I have both friends and acquaintances who either live in India or visit frequently. None has ever had a real problem. Use your head, and you'll be fine.
[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited May 01, 2000).]
panzerfuehrer
New member
My wife and I were married in Calcutta, and toured much of the north Indian countryside. At no time did I feel like I might need a firearm with me, and even if I had, I wouldn't have been able to carry sufficient ammunition. If a situation were to arise where you might need a firearm, then it would need to be of the fully automatic, shoulder-mounted variety.
Anand's suggestion of armed security is a good one. My opinion however, is that you will draw even more attention than you will already otherwise draw. He is also right about carrying illegally - there are some things that no amount of baksheesh will fix.
Register with the US authorities in India. Dress like the natives and go with the flow, and you will be fine.
------------------
Panzerführer
Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die Säue.
Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't.
Anand's suggestion of armed security is a good one. My opinion however, is that you will draw even more attention than you will already otherwise draw. He is also right about carrying illegally - there are some things that no amount of baksheesh will fix.
Register with the US authorities in India. Dress like the natives and go with the flow, and you will be fine.
------------------
Panzerführer
Die Wahrheit ist eine Perle. Werfen sie nicht vor die Säue.
Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't.
here's a more comprehensive overview, courtesy of TFLer anand.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33618
A BRIEF SUMMARY OF FIREARM LAWS IN INDIA
1.A citizen is allowed upto three firearms or less on a license, renewable every three years after the initial one year probationary period.
2.No more than 100 rounds of ammunition can be purchsed in any calender year for self defense,& No more than 50 rounds can be possessed at one time with regard to handguns and Rifles.
3.For Shotguns the limit is 450 rounds per year and 100 at one time.
4.One cannot own more than one firearm of the same type.(No two revolvers etc.)
5.Non-prohibited calibers include,.380 .32,
.30luger,.25Auto,.22. Of these only .32 S&W short & Long, and .22LR are made in India.
6.Prohibited calibers include all military calibers and licensing is avilable from the Ministry of Home Affairs.
7.No provision for Full-Auto.(Illegal)
8.Weapons cannot be carried into Religious
gatherings, fairs or into the Assembly Hall or Secratariat(akin to State Capitol) or Airports.
8. During election time all weapons are to be deposited at the police station having jurisdiction over one's residence.
9.Importation of weapons & ammunition has been banned since 1984. Only legal method of importation is on a transfer of residence back to India, following a two year stay abroad, and owning the weapon for at least one year prior to importation.(Imported weapons may not be transfered to others during the importers lifetime.)
10.All firearms & ammo may be purchsed only after a license has been issued. The weapon has to be inspected by the Deputy Commissioner of Police(DCP) and entered into the License.Any purchse of ammo will be entered into the License by the Seller.
11. All weapon transfers need authorization from the DCP.
12.There are two types of licenses:
a.State License issued by the Commissioner of Police valid only in the state of issuance
b.All India License (which is a state license converted to All India coverage by the Home Secretary)
These can be again categorized into:
a.Non-prohibited class(Issued by the state)
b.Prohibited class(Issued by Ministry of Home Affairs)
13.Criminal Background check is compulsory.
Income per year has to be noted on the application and an Inspector of Police will perform an interview.
Comments:
1.State Licenses for non prohibited guns are extremely difficult to obtain and only people with a lot of influence or money, or buddies of the commissioner can get one.Licenses for prohibited weapons are even harder to get.
2. Since only 12 gauge and .32 S&W Long & Short and .22LR are made in India it would be logical to buy one of these calibers.
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33618
A BRIEF SUMMARY OF FIREARM LAWS IN INDIA
1.A citizen is allowed upto three firearms or less on a license, renewable every three years after the initial one year probationary period.
2.No more than 100 rounds of ammunition can be purchsed in any calender year for self defense,& No more than 50 rounds can be possessed at one time with regard to handguns and Rifles.
3.For Shotguns the limit is 450 rounds per year and 100 at one time.
4.One cannot own more than one firearm of the same type.(No two revolvers etc.)
5.Non-prohibited calibers include,.380 .32,
.30luger,.25Auto,.22. Of these only .32 S&W short & Long, and .22LR are made in India.
6.Prohibited calibers include all military calibers and licensing is avilable from the Ministry of Home Affairs.
7.No provision for Full-Auto.(Illegal)
8.Weapons cannot be carried into Religious
gatherings, fairs or into the Assembly Hall or Secratariat(akin to State Capitol) or Airports.
8. During election time all weapons are to be deposited at the police station having jurisdiction over one's residence.
9.Importation of weapons & ammunition has been banned since 1984. Only legal method of importation is on a transfer of residence back to India, following a two year stay abroad, and owning the weapon for at least one year prior to importation.(Imported weapons may not be transfered to others during the importers lifetime.)
10.All firearms & ammo may be purchsed only after a license has been issued. The weapon has to be inspected by the Deputy Commissioner of Police(DCP) and entered into the License.Any purchse of ammo will be entered into the License by the Seller.
11. All weapon transfers need authorization from the DCP.
12.There are two types of licenses:
a.State License issued by the Commissioner of Police valid only in the state of issuance
b.All India License (which is a state license converted to All India coverage by the Home Secretary)
These can be again categorized into:
a.Non-prohibited class(Issued by the state)
b.Prohibited class(Issued by Ministry of Home Affairs)
13.Criminal Background check is compulsory.
Income per year has to be noted on the application and an Inspector of Police will perform an interview.
Comments:
1.State Licenses for non prohibited guns are extremely difficult to obtain and only people with a lot of influence or money, or buddies of the commissioner can get one.Licenses for prohibited weapons are even harder to get.
2. Since only 12 gauge and .32 S&W Long & Short and .22LR are made in India it would be logical to buy one of these calibers.
""Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandis K. Gandhi, Autobiography, Translated from the Gujarati by Mahadev Desai. Public Affairs Press, Washington, D.C. 1948. (Republication by Unabridged Dover, 1983. page 403.)
I have several Indian friends and they describe the process of buying a firearm as being extremely difficult. Your best bet to be secure in India is to travel with a good Indian friend, or someone you can hire who is trustworthy. The cost will be peanuts. Over Christmas break an American friend visited with several Indian friends. They hired a driver for 5 days/24 hours for something like TEN dollars. As in 2 dollars per day. I am sure armed security must be available.
A firearm may also make your wife a target. Sameer's father is in the elite class who can own a gun. His father used to hunt the canals/rivers until the police got a tip he would be attacked in an attempt to steal the gun. My advice is to take Anand's advice.
A firearm may also make your wife a target. Sameer's father is in the elite class who can own a gun. His father used to hunt the canals/rivers until the police got a tip he would be attacked in an attempt to steal the gun. My advice is to take Anand's advice.
Conservative
New member
Thanks for all the info. The reason we would like to visit India is that we have friends who are living there. I guess if we go visit a "small innocent looking pocket knife" will have to do the trick. Yes, we would dress like the natives, that is always a good idea.