Finn Captured M91 - Need advice

R

Rich_357

New member
I could use some friendly advice.

I ran across a Finn captured, Westinghouse M91. The reciever has been scrubbed but you can still see the stamp. It has the Finn capture markings and the flamed stock is absolutely beautiful!!! The bad, it has been counterbored and the rifling is dark and nasty. The handguard is slightly loose as well. The dang thing is beautiful even if it doesn’t shoot worth a poop. :P

1) I could use some good opinions as to whether to consider it. I have been very particual about the working order of other fire arms that I've purchased. This would be the first for "It's cool and pretty but doesn't work so great."

2) Is it actually possible or even a good idea to swap out the barrel for one in better condition. I know that the M91/30 barrels aren't long enough but it's a thought if I could find a cheap M91 with a good barrel. On the other hand, I'd hate to Bubba a piece of history.
 
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Replacing a barrel with one already chambered is a huge gamble on head space; I would forget about it. If you can stand having a rifle just for looks, buy it; otherwise, look around for one in firing condition. (Or both, if the budget will stand it!)

Jim
 
I agree. I did some reading; I didn't realize that the Westinghouse had a distinct blade front sight. If I do buy it, it gets cleaned but that's it. We'll see...I've always wanted a tiger stripe/flamed stock rifle.
 
Have you personally shot this particular rifle?

If not, how do you know it "doesn't shoot worth a poop"?

Counterboring and a dark bore does not necessarily mean the rifle would shoot badly. I've seen some very rough bores group very well with the right load in these old rifles. If you DO get it, please do not mess with it. Westinghouse M91s are rather collectible. The scrubbed receiver is not atypical of a Finn capture either and really doesn't lower collector value much.

If you want it, buy it. Clean the bore out and see what it will do at the range. If you can't get it to group to you liking, and or the history factor isn't a compelling reason to keep it around, sell it to someone who will appreciate it for what it is.

If you're looking for a Mosin variant that is actually somewhat available now and that has an excellent reputation for being accurate, get an M39 Finn.
 
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how do you know it "doesn't shoot worth a poop"?
Click to expand...

The important question is "WHAT does it shoot badly, WITH??"

Many people think their rifles won't shoot well, because they don't shoot well with the cheapest milsurp crap ammo the owners can buy. AMMO MATTERS!

One story, a few decades old, now, comes from the Philippines. A fellow got a Steyr SSG. (the Steyr SSG is a high end, high dollar Austrian made sniper rifle, with a reputation for excellent accuracy).

He was having trouble getting a 6" group at 100yds! He was convinced his rifle was crap, and was about to sell it, cheap. A friend suggested he try some different ammo, instead of the Philippine surplus stuff he was shooting. He tried a box of match ammo, and the result was MOA or better. He kept the rifle he was now very happy with.

AMMO MATTERS!!

Even rifles with "trashed" bores can sometimes be made to shoot very accurately, with handloads carefully tailored to that rifle. I've seen rifles that scatter milsurp or even decent factory loads all over the paper shoot tight little groups shooting ammo that was specifically built for them. There's no guarantee, of course, but the odds are good that accuracy can be improved using various "tricks" (such as cast bullets properly sized for the bore and correctly loaded) handloaders have been doing it for generations.
 
Thanks for the information. :)

I tried but the price went higher than I was willing to pay for it....slightly south of $400 after shipping and FFL. If it was a clean bore, I would have pulled the trigger. This is the old girl; I hope that future owner appreciates her. She's a pretty girl... :cool:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/660173609
 
Mostly they weren't. In some cases, rifles that changed hands had hated "enemy" markings deliberately removed or defaced (swastikas being a prime example) but very often no one cared, the old markings being removed as part of the removal of rust, crud, etc.

Jim
 
Most of the two headed eagles of the Czar were removed by the communist government after the takeover in Russia. Most of the rifles found with the eagles intact were ones that were in the possession of other countries.
 
There is something to be said for having patience. She's not a flamed stock but she will do.....pretty girl! 1941 VKT post war stock. I'm a happy boy and it wasn't much more than the M91. :D

Thanks guys! :cool:
 

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Thanks man! Saw the stock and the condition and I jumped on it; you don't run into something like that everyday. I was drooling over a flamed Sako on gunbroker but it went for 3X what this one cost me. I'll try to take her to the range next weekend if I think that it won't melt. It's been hot as hades!!!
 
Take it out and shoot it. I have some military rifles with badly pitted barrels, some are just awful, most are worse than average. I have a couple with minor pitting and they shoot well.

That rifle is most certainly a Finn rebuild. That stock is not a WW1 Westinghouse. I was able to find a Finn with a Westinghouse receiver and barrel, my recollection was that the barrel was very good, and it shoots 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards with ball ammunition. That is what these things were made to, they were service rifles given to cannon fodder who barely had any marksmanship training at all. These rifles are however, dead nuts reliable,

I don't know who counterbored the barrels on Finnish rifles. Finnish rifles are very unpredictable in terms of rebuild and configuration. They "follow" patterns, but nothing is exact, leading me to conclude that the Finns had lots of little shops making parts or rebuilding the things. I have two Finnish M1891's built on the octagonal receivers. One has a new barrel, the Westinghouse has an original barrel. Both went through a rebuild programs and the stocks are not original factory issue. Very few factory Soviet or American stocks are found on Finnish rifles. It is obvious based on the number of Finnish rifles I handled, that the Finn's preferred rebuilding rifles on the Tsarist era receivers, no idea why. I ran into Soviet era rifles, must have been captured during the Soviet invasion, those were basically reblued and restocked. Hardly any were rebarreled which is very common among the octagonal receiver types. Maybe that reflected wartime expediencies.

I recommend installing a new mainspring, it may help ignition. You don't spend much, these Howlin Raven mainsprings are under $10.00 https://www.howlingraven.com/Mosin-Nagant-Firing-Pin-Spring-p/hr-mnfps.htm
 
Thanks Slamfire, however I passed on the M91. Instead I picked up a VKT M39; it was a good decision.

To follow up on you post, the Finns had a stash of M91's after the break away from Czarist Russia and the Finnish civil war. From what I read, slightly short of 200k of them. After Finland gained it's independence, it sought after a way to improve upon the rifle stock that it had in it's possession. At the time Finland was a poor country and did not have the money or equipment to build receivers of it's own. They took what they had, improved upon it and built one of the deadliest bolt actions of WWII. The Cadillacs of the Mosin family. That stuff is just cool!
 
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Without seeing the pics it might not be scrubbed per say. I have 2 Finn New England westinghouse 91s and one has very light stamps. It almost looks scrubbed. One of the S.A. stamps is double struck almost like you see on some error coins.
 
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