Finger on the trigger

F

FUD

Moderator
When I received my professional training nearly two decades ago, I was taught to keep the finger in the trigger guard but not resting on the trigger and the safety in the "on" position. If I had to shoot, to flick the safety off and fire. This was, of course, before SIGs & DAO pistols became so popular (back then, we mostly saw 1911s, S&W and Berettas).

Is this STILL a good approach when using these type of pistols or is it better to have the safety off and the finger out of the trigger guard until ready to fire?

Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
I have mixed feelings. Ayoob documented a case where a cop tried to shoot someone attacking his partner. Cop couldn't figure why his Taurus 9mm wouldn't go off. Come to find out, he had his finger on the trigger guard. :( His partner died.

I keep my finger on the edge of the trigger guard if about to shoot (and extended alongside the trigger guard if just carrying the weapon). That way, if I feel shooting is required, I put a little pressure on the finger and it naturally snaps onto the trigger.

I don't carry weapons with external safeties (although I may get a 1911). My thumb is too short to actuate slide-mounted safeties without breaking my grip.
 
I read the same blurb. To me it sounds like a training issue. If he had repeated the process of bringing his gun to bear sufficiently, the process would have been burned into his muscle memory. I still think the finger should stay out unless actually firing the weapon. Too many variables in a real gunfight vs rangefight training you can't control.
 
I prefe to rest my extended finger, which is long, on the frame just below where the frame meets the slide.

I practice this.

Very quick to drop the finger into the guard and squeeze the trigger.

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now joing the GOA!
 
I agree with CMOS. I was taught to keep my trigger finger on the "locator button" anytime I was not ready to fire. Nearly every handgun I have ever seen has some sort of pin, lever or protrusion just above the trigger on the side of the frame and this is what I put my finger on when I have the pistol out and ready. No way for it to be mistook for a trigger, like wrapping around the front of the trigger guard would, or to cause an AD by having my finger anywhere in the trigger guard. With a Glock, which is what I carry every day, it is irresponsible to have my finger in the trigger guard anywhere unless I am pulling the trigger.

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Gun Toter
 
The trigger guard is there for a reason, to keep all objects from interacting with the trigger until time of fire.

I cannot think of any good reason to have your finger inside the trigger guard until time of fire. If you cannot manage to get your finger inside the trigger guard to pull the trigger, then i suspect you have either serious dexterity problems or a serious need of training.

Keeping your finger inside the trigger guard is the best way to experiance a negligent discharge.

~USP
 
CMOS and Gun Toter

I like that method. Methinks I'll have to start practicing it. For the record, I never have my finger inside the trigger guard until ready to fire. Just wanted to make that clear.
 
Additionally for me, having that finger there, essentially "pointing" in the location of the barrel, is also good sighting assistance.

You finger *is* pointing at the target. Very natural movement.

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now joing the GOA!
 
What stands out from the above comments is that training/practice is what makes a difference between effective use of one's handgun and the tragic failure cited by buzz_knox.

It doesn't matter whether it's called "muscle memory" or "reflex" or "trained pattern". What matters is that you follow a sequence which is a)inherently safe; and b)unfailing as to getting off the shot. You get there from repetition.

(That's easy for me to say; I've been doing this longer than Dennis has. :) )

Regards, Rat
 
FUD:

In all of the courses I've taken, the instructors insisted that we keep our fingers out of the trigger guard until we were ready to fire. And that's what I require on my range as well.

Jared
 
Rule #3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET.

By corrolary, keep your finger outside the trigger guard - it's there to keep things off the trigger, including your finger when you're not ready to fire.
 
I'm in CMOS and Gun Toter's camp here. My index finger is always straight along the frame just below the slide with the protruding end of the slide stop pin (the locator button) right at the first joint of my finger. That is a very good tactile indicator of proper placement.

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If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.
 
imo these are all range safety issues and not really handgun fighting issues.

having a finger on the trigger of double action pistol or revolver before getting a sight picture is even talked about by much worshipped jeff cooper.

[This message has been edited by 6forsure (edited May 14, 2000).]
 
Art,
Your comments reflect your great wisdom.
And I agree you've been doing *most* things longer than *any* of us! :D
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ctdonath:
Rule #3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET.[/quote]

Good point. Only problem is that many carry a 1911 for the inherent ease of getting off a supremely accurate, instant first shot. Many can do this. I however, find that when my sights are on the target, they shake as the index finger goes from the possition along side of the frame through the trigger guard to trigger. That trigger guard acts like a speed bump to me. I don't have this problem when shooting SIGs. They don't get in the way. I wish that some major manufacturers would tool up to make frames with long trigger guards that don't get in the way when I decide to shoot that first shot.
I love 1911s, but in all honesty, the trigger guard does cancel out much of any benefit over shooting a fine DA/SA SIG in my humble experiences.

robert


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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
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"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ

[This message has been edited by EQUALIZER (edited May 15, 2000).]
 
When I'm using a target pistol, the finger is outside the trigger guard. When dry firing or live shooting my defense gun, the finger is lightly on the trigger as soon as the gun is up in position. I guess I figure that in a real defense scenario, if it's reached a point where the gun is pointed at someone, it's also reached the point where it's just about time to shoot. Wrong?

Dick
 
I have the same problem that EQ mentioned with the guard being struck by the trigger finger, knocking the sight picture off, when trying to "find" the trigger from a straight finger starting position.

However, I mostly carry Glocks and have found that if I index the tip of my trigger finger on the take down lever I can very quickly and smoothly "drop" it down into the guard and onto the trigger witt minimal sight picture upset. I use this method when training and when doing searches/room clearing on duty. I'm out of the trigger guard until I'm ready to shoot but I am able to get the job done if required.

Here's a funny story that could've just as easily been an embarassing or tragic story due to my lack of training on this subject at the time.

It's mid day. I'm on patrol when 911 gives out a residential burglary alarm in my jurisdiction. I knew the family was not home since they had requested Special Patrol while they were on vacation. I arrive on the scene to find an open rear window on the two story residence.

Being young, dumb, and full of p*ss and vinegar I decide to go ahead and clear the house alone. I had cleared the entire lower level and had started up the stairs to clear the upstairs area. When I reached the top of the stairs I heard "someone quietly mumbling" in the last room on the left down the hallway to my right. I announce, "Police! Who's there?!?", and get no reply. I can still hear the mumbling.

I start clearing the rooms between me and the room containing the "threat". As I near the door it gets quite. Being the rookie from h*ll I "slice the pie" on the room the noise was coming from with finger on the trigger of my Glock G22 with no hint of trigger take up left for a safety buffer.

Ends up, the "mumbling intruder" was simply a television left on. No problem. I then return to the other end of the hallway to clear the last room. As I get almost to the room's door I hear what sounded like maybe a closet door knob hitting a wall. Ok, finger on trigger, no slack left in trigger pull, I once again announce myself before I "slice the pie". No reply, complete silence. As I began to "slice the pie" through the doorway this HUGE cat runs out of the room and right between my legs down the hallway!! I almost sh*t all over myself. I instinctively indexed the pistol on the cat as soon as it came into sight and while "covering him" I was yelling "FREEZE, POLICE!!!".

To this day I don't know what kept me from breaking a shot! I could just see Fluffy splattered all over the rug!! Funny thing...Fluffy didn't stop when ordered to do so!! :) I won't go into how long it took me to work up enough nutz to finish clearing that final room. :D

I had similar incidents, one with a bird in a closet when investigating a burglary in progress with obvious forced entry and again with a dang reflection in a mirror of myself and my Glock POINTED RIGHT AT ME while clearing a grocery store locker room after a through the roof burglary.

Funny now, not funny worth a dam* then!! :D

I have since trained to keep my finger indexed on the take down lever when clearing rooms and such. Luck saved my 'tater in the above incidents but I prefer to rely on training rather than luck these days. :)

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R6...aka...Chris

[This message has been edited by Rainbow Six (edited May 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rainbow Six (edited May 16, 2000).]
 
Monkeyleg, FUD: There's a problem with keeping your finger lightly on the trigger. The problem is the startle reflex. When you are startled, people tend to clench their fists. If you have your finger on the trigger and are startled, you are likely to have an AD, particularly if have a light, short trigger pull (e.g., M1911 or Glock). Since you hadn't made a decision to pull the trigger at this point, you may have just used deadly force without justification. Not good.

Jared
 
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