Finally Tested BE-86

[pctechdude]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I've been sitting on this bottle of BE-86 for a while and finally decided to do some testing. I wanted to duplicate the factory Speer 124gr +p load.

Seeing as I had the 124gr gold dot bullets, and much reading, I settled on a load. Charge weight of 6.3gr BE-86, seated to 1.125" crimped to 0.3765 and ignited by a winchester small pistol primer. The brass used was once fired blazer brass.

I headed outside in the cold and wind yesterday, with my gun, the ammo, and the chronograph. Temperature here in central ohio was ~65°F, 15mph west wind. sprinkling rain too lol.

Five shots
1261
1243
1241
1234
1219
Avg. 1240 fps

I carefully collected each piece of brass after each shot for measurement purposes, I decided to use the case from the 1261fps cartridge just for safety concerns.

The fired case measured 0.379" at the mouth and a case web measured at 0.386"

I took several measurements on this because the results were surprising to me. These measurements were showing hardly any expansion signs on the brass. They were basically 0.001~0.002" over a sized case.

While I know reading a primer is not best, there was no flattening, primer was still very round.

I made the assumption that Alliant's load data shows a max charge of 5.9gr BE-86 for a 124gr JHP. With the little expansion these rounds showed I'm drawing a conclusion of the fact that Alliant has some watered down load data on this. For safety reasons I believe. I'd like it if they published pressure data!

On a side note, I do know for a fact the factory Speer 115gr Gold Dot +p+ is charged with 8gr BE-86. The bullet is 0.528" long, and seated to 1.120".

The 124gr gold dot bullet is 0.570" long. I believe I could I could squeeze some more velocity but why risk it? This load actually slightly beat what I was attempting (Factory 1220fps), the coil was nice, almost soft, and the cases ejected about 2 feet to my right.










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[Nick_C_S]

I wanted to duplicate the factory Speer 124gr +p load.

I never try to duplicate factory ammo; as it is pretty much an exercise in futility. But I have emulated a few. The difference between "duplicate" and "emulate" is more than just semantics in my mind.

It so happens that Speer's 124gn +P (Speer# 23617) is my chosen carry ammo for my Kahr CW9 (3.7" bbl). It chronographs at 1182 f/s through that gun (in case you wanted to know that for reference). And although I have over 500 of Speer's 124 GDHP's in my loading stock, I have not tried to emulate Speer's 23617 round - yet. It's on my agenda of load work-ups in my head, but just isn't a high priority. Have other irons in the fire, so to speak.

I believe I could squeeze some more velocity (than the 1240 f/s) but why risk it?

Exactly. And this where the difference between "duplicate" and "emulate" comes in. 1240 f/s is plenty stout - regardless of where the factory ammo chronographs through your gun (which you didn't mention). Speer's Gold Dot bullet design/construction/profile is designed to expand at much lower velocities - probably around - or even under - 1000 f/s. So you definitely have a potent round there.

Time to move on to the next project

P.S. You mentioned a 15 MPH West wind; but didn't mention which way you were facing

 

[pctechdude]

Nick, lol I was facing east good call on me forgetting that. On the speer Gold dot factory loading I apologize, I had an average velocity of 1212fps out the advertised 1220fps.

Surprising the factory rounds had more snap to them. Okay I'll conclude emulating these, they did come out a tad faster. So not an equal duplication but close. I'll stick with these for critter control around the farm. We've got beans planted this year and the groundhogs think they're going to enjoy free dinners on my dime! HAHA

Next project, 230gr Gold Dot 45acp +p with Ramshot silhouette? According to western powders published load data should get almost 1000fps

P.S. It was early this morning when I got around to writing this up and hadn't finished my coffee yet lmao!

 

[Unclenick]

Pctechdude,

Business first: Please read the sticky at the top of the forum about hot loads. Thank you for posting your warning, but there is an official one that's required for over-book loads, and it's in that sticky for copying and pasting. I'll put it in for you after I post this. I'll also pull yours, as the suggestion to reduce the loads 10% is inadequate. 10% is what you use with a book maximum, and not with an over-book load. For the latter, you need a large enough percentage to get it down to 10% below book maximum.

On a side note, I do know for a fact the factory Speer 115gr Gold Dot +p+ is charged with 8gr BE-86.

Did you pull some down and test the powder at your load levels? Factories usually buy bulk grade powder because it's cheaper than the more tightly burn rate controlled canister grade sold to handloaders. They can get away with that because they have pressure guns to adjust loads when the burn rate changes significantly from the last lot. Handloaders mostly work from load manual data, and that data would be frequently invalid if they sold us powder with burn rates that vary as much as bulk grade does, lot-to-lot. So even if that powder in the +P+ factory load were of the same type that is branded as BE-86 in canister grade, it could very well have a burn rate significantly different because of the particular lot. This also means that if you pulled some last week and again in a year, you could find rather different charge weights in the two.

 

[Nick_C_S]

230gr Gold Dot 45acp +p with Ramshot silhouette?

Hope your gun is well built. 1KFPS is ambitious for a 230gn slug. Careful chasing velocities - it can be a recipe for instant gun dismantlement. I don't know how long you've been loading, and it's okay to have a desired velocity in mind. But aiming for a velocity is kind of reverse-engineering a load work up, so to speak. A safer approach is to choose the bullet/powder combination and work up to the point where you're no longer comfortable (for whatever reason) increasing the powder charge. The resulting velocity is the resulting velocity. It either makes your desired velocity, or it doesn't.

Getting back to 45 ACP/230gn: Generally, the high 800's to low 900's is about as much as one can expect from a full-sized (5") 1911. Because 45 ACP is a low-pressure cartridge and struggles to deliver typical expansion type velocities, I personally prefer to go with 185's for full-power defense loadings. My thought process being that the lighter slug can deliver from a velocity standpoint; besides, 185gn is still a pretty big chunk o' slug. But that's just me. Point is, I don't have any high-power load work up info for 230's. So I can only speak in general terms on this subject.

BE-86 & Ramshot Silhouette. Both flash-suppressed propellants. Is that by choice, or just coincidence? Just curious. At any rate, is there any reason why you don't want to use BE-86 for your 45ACP/230 work up? Again, just curious.

 

[pctechdude]

Yes I have pulled down a few, and a few different lots too. The powder was identical to be-86 as noted by the white identifier flakes. I had three different lots available to try, and each one range between 6.2-6.4gr. Now the standard pressure 124gr appears to have AA#5 or #7? I can't recall off the top of my head.

A good friend of mine was a deputy in a local police department, and when they were to qualify, they were given x amount of boxes of the 124gr +p gold dots. He stashed away all his unused ammo

As for the experience I've been loading for almost 10 years . Thank you for changing the warning, my mistake on the %. :-/

For the 45, and silhouette, there is a link on western powders website, linking to their published data for 45 acp +p loads as well as 9mm +p loads. So I would be playing safe and doing the proper work.

They listed plated hollowpoints and the golden sabers at velocities close to 1000fps, while not the gold dot I understand that aspect. It is moving for the 230gr slugs, but it could be a safely done. My 45acp gun is a Springfield armory 1911 and with any expanding ammunition I use a 24# recoil spring. Just for safety reasons.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Now the standard pressure 124gr appears to have AA#5 or #7? I can't recall off the top of my head.

It just so happens that the non+P 124 Gold Dot ammo (Speer #23618) is a round I have successfully emulated. The factory ammo chronographed at 1048 f/s through my 3.7" Kahr. Using AA5, I got it to 1049 f/s using the Speer #14 published max of 6.4 grains. It's a pretty snappy round. My gut (and 30 years of handloading experience) told me that going any further with AA5 was inadvisable. AA5 is fairly fast and isn't going to yield maximum velocities. But it is well suited for shorter barrel applications - like mine - and that's why I chose it (and not due to powder identifying a pulled down factory round).

One thing to know about factory ammo is that they are rarely made from "canister grade" powder. i.e. the powders that we get at our LGS (Local Gun Store) isn't the same stuff that is used for factory ammo. I don't have all the skinny on it, but as I understand, powder manufacturers make powders in large quantities. And when the resulting powder batch doesn't make the tight specifications required to be worthy of "canister grade," they bulk sell it to ammo manufacturers. The ammo manufacturers then test the powder extensively, and only then, do they create ammunition with it. So for that reason, I don't pull down factory ammo to identify the powder - chances are, it's nothing I can get ahold of anyway. Plus, identifying powders by sight is ill advised. For instance, Bullseye and Powder Pistol look identical.

Additional Edit: Somehow, I managed to miss Unclenick's post entirely. I didn't mean to be redundant with the last paragraph regarding the difference between canister grade and bulk grade propellant. Unclenick already covered it - better than me.