Fillers?

Z

ZVP

New member
I have been using Cream of Wheat for filler and to space the ball close to the forcing cone. It works on all but one of my guns (a Piettia '58 Remington). With this revolver thew groups get larger if I use any sort of filler. It seems to like just an over-the -powder Wad and no filler.
This happens no matter what size ball I use aqnd the thickness of the over the powder Wad dosen't seem to make any difference (They're all about the same).
I thought that you didn't want the ball to jump across a wide gap in the cylinder chamber before contacting the Forcing Cone. I understood that the Cone fits the Ball to the Barrel for accuracy.
With a 30g load of Propellant there is about 1/3 of a chamber of free space from the ball face to the Forcing Cone face.
I have tried to reserch on the Net and figgure out just why this guns groups widen with the filler and honestly can't find a thing to explain it!
Do any of you have any ideas why this happens?
Thanks,
ZVP
 
First thing that comes to mind is that the chambers are smaller than the barrel groove diameter in that gun. If there's a significant gap between the ball and the grooves in the barrel, accuracy will suffer, and the location of the ball with respect to the chamber mouth is thus irrelevant. This is a common problem with guns in this price range. I suggest you slug the barrel and chambers on all your revolvers.
 
I'll give that a try. GOOD suggestion!
The funny thing is that the revolver groups well if I don't use any filler.
When I add filler as friends and contacts have told me to do (in order to maintain proper Ball to Forcing Cone distance), the groups widen???
I have just been loading Powder, a Wad and a Ball and just shooting it. Works fine that way...
Maybe I am over-worring and should just shoot the fun the way "it" wants to work.
ZVP
 
If I want my balls closer to the end of the chamber I add more powder. I tried fillers with a couple of guns and never noticed any difference in accuracy. I never tried it off a bench tho.
 
I have benched a couple of revolvers for the purpose of testing the 'move the ball closer to the chamber mouth for improved accuracy' mantra. I no longer have the data close at hand, but the bottom line was that it works. A little. At 25 yards the groups (all 5 shot groups) with the filler were, as best I can recall, about 1/4" to 1/3" smaller. Since there's no way I can shoot well enough to take advantage of that improvement, I don't use filler.
 
Each firearm is an individual. Some appear to be possessed by the ancient demons of brimstone, an essential ingredient in black powder. :rolleyes:

In cap and ball revolvers, it's great to have a very accurate load. But often, because of the authenticity of these reproduction revolvers, you're already hampered by the meager sights.
If you have a Ruger Old Army with adjustable sights, or a Remington with modern, adjustable sights, this doesn't hold true.

If I were you, I'd shoot whatever load is more accurate. If that means no filler, so be it. The root cause may be smaller chambers. If so, the chambers can be very slightly enlarged but as long as you're getting good accuracy without fillers, why bother?
And, because of the fickle nature of firearms (modern and old) you may find that it won't shoot as well as it did before.
If you're happy with the accuracy it delivers without filling, so be it.
 
robhof

With my modern revolvers, having the bullet as far forward as practical does indeed make a difference, but I'm shooting at 50 to 200 yds with them, most of my B/p shooting is less than 30yds so I only use a wad under the ball for fowling reduction and added sealing. If you get good groups without filler, save money and shoot what works; if it ain't broke, don't fix it!!:cool::D
 
Fillers

When I first got into C&B I read alot about fillers. In an attempt to simplify my life I deemed this as unnessary. If I want to move the ball out farther I add more powder. At times I use a card wad and grease over the Ball,I also use a lot of the lubed wonder wads. I can't tell a big difference between either method.
I shoot Piettas and a bore slug miked at 454. All my cylinders miked at 452, I sent all my cylinders to BP inc and had them reamed to 454. I use 457 balls and noticed an increase in accuracy and a decrease in leading.



" I said I had no use for one,I never said I didn't know how to use one". M.Quigley
 
I have played with fillers quite a bit the funny thing is if your guns sweet spot is 30gr then you add a filler like grits or corn meal that compresses you have changed every thing it is kind of like putting a heavy crimp on cartage case. This could be good or bad. With filler you sweet spot might be 18 to 25gr. I have a brass frame Colt that loves 18gr Goex, felt wad, grits to the top of the chamber, 454 ball and Crisco over the ball. I know i don't need the Crisco it just shoots better when i use it. Using wads and lube over the balls changes things also so there can be a lot of trail and error when working up a load. These days i mostly use Goex FFF, grease cookies and 380 and 457 balls.
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