Fight the Fed's?

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NukeCop

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I've been floating around all the forums and I've noticed something. Everone on here is Pro-gun/pro-2A rights. So, another quick question.

If the fed's come to take our law-abiding citizens firearms, How many of you will make the decision to fight? I don't mean in the courts either. Who here is actually willing to use to hot lead to let the Gov't know they have truly violated our rights?

Or am I alone on this one?
 
They're not going to "come and take your firearms" while you are a law-abiding citizen. They are going to pass so many finely detailed laws about nothing that they will take your firearm as part of a warranted search when someone tips (truthfully or not) that you have violated one of these laws you know nothing about.

Experience speaks.
 
They're not going to "come and take your firearms" while you are a law-abiding citizen. They are going to pass so many finely detailed laws about nothing that they will take your firearm as part of a warranted search when someone tips (truthfully or not) that you have violated one of these laws you know nothing about.
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Exactly. There are very few truly "law abiding" citizens left, because to truly abide by all the laws in this country you practically need a law degree. If they were to pass some truly heinous anti-gun legislation, all those petty misdemeanors and civil infractions would be suddenly brought to bear as an excuse to find your guns and confiscate them.

That's assuming they don't pass some form of mandatory national registration first...at which point either they'd have no problem finding your guns, or you'd no longer be a law abiding citizen (unregistered firearms).

The law is fun, no?

As far as getting into a shootout to defend your gun stash...good luck with that. There will always be more LEOs with better weapons than you have. You will lose, and most likely die. And, if history is any indicator, the majority of the population with either not care or just see you as some crazed "gun nut" who took things to far...so your death will be unlikely to change anything.

The courts would be a better option, and quite frankly more likely to bring about change...though still unlikely, I'll admit.

As for the second amendment, something to consider: neither "arms" nor "bear" is clearly defined in the text (nor "infringed," though that word doesn't have such broad possibilities of definition), so it really is open to some level of interpretation. I know how I interpret it, and it's probably much the same way that you (and most of us here) interpret it. But that doesn't mean that this is the only way to do so, and that any other interpretation is automatically invalid.

Personally, given the full text as well as the context in which it was written, I can't see any interpretation that doesn't involve allowing the ownership of the civilian equivalent of whatever weapons are commonly used by the military (currently AR-15, 92F, etc) even if nothing else. It would make no logical sense. But we have a process for determining constitutionality, and as long as that process is used the law is valid.

Would I follow a law that I felt infringed on the basic principle of the second amendment? I'll preemptively plead the fifth on that one. Luckily I currently live in a place where that's not so much of an issue.
 
Slightly OT, but JC I believe it is the US Code that says that civilians have a right to bear arms that are of the same quality and type being used by the US Military. Of course according to US code everyone between 16 and like 45 is in "the militia" and it is Congress' duty to train and supply us. It is also our "duty" to keep and bear arms and be proficient in their use.
 
Just to cite the applicable code pertaining to CC's post:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311 Prev | Next

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes


(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
 
Thats it! I just looked at wikipedia though and it says that
The United States National Guard, created by the Militia Act of 1903, was a federalized portion of the State militias which were converted into regular troops kept in reserve for the United States Army. The National Defense Act of 1916 [1] placed all state militia units under the National Guard. This act was later amended in 1933 under the National Guard Mobilization, Act][2] to place all National Guard units under the control of the United States Army, making them regular troops and effectively ending their status as constitutional militia forces under Article 1, section 8, paragraphs 15,16, of the Federal Constitution and the Second Amendment of the Federal Constitution.

The current United States Code, Title 10 (Armed forces), section 311 (Militia: Composition and Classes), paragraph (a) states: "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." Section 313 of Title 32 refers to persons with prior military experience who could serve as officers. These persons remain members of the militia until age 64. Paragraph (b) further states, "The classes of the militia are: (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."[3].
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So darn... I don't understand if I'm in the constitutional militia, the state militia, the congressional militia or the National Guard.
 
History is written by the winners. The idea of finding a remote hilltop and doing an Alamo thing with our favorite hunting rifles sounds neat. Wonder how well an '06 would hold out against an air strike? It would take some major disaster to get our own people to fight enmass. Maybe a sudden gas shortage. But there are more military minds walking the streets than are serving for Uncle Sam. And this represents a vast pool of knowledge the people could use to organize themselves. Having lots of already trained personel is one thing but getting them together might be a nightmare.
 
ah, nothing like a guy names NukeCop with 8 posts asking around questions like "would you fight your government".

The irony is just too much for the morning.

considering every single armed resistance has ended up with the participants painted as nutjobs and shot, burnt or went to prison, and the only successful uprising in recent history is not known to any body who went through the public school system(Battle of Athens), no one will want to answer that question.
 
There are very few truly "law abiding" citizens left, because to truly abide by all the laws in this country you practically need a law degree.
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At the very same time, you better know exactly how that computer you are now using works. Where is stuff stored? Where are copies stored? How does TCP/IP work? How does internet access work? How does your firewall work (or fail to work)? How can incriminating files find their way onto your computer without your knowledge?

Can any of you answer any of these questions? Does any of you know the related law (even only the code)? Anybody know the related case law?

Do you use any wireless anything that's connected to your computer? If so, do you know exactly how it does its task and whether and how you can ensure that only YOU have access to it? Have you implemented those things?

Do you know, at every moment, what your kid is doing on the internet? You sure he doesn't just once get curious and click on one of those YOU ARE A WINNER! banners? Do you know what frequently happens to those who do? (see the Verizon website's security page for the answer).

If you are lacking in any way in ALL of the knowledge mentioned above, you could have a gun-snatching just around the corner and not have a clue.

If you want to keep your gun, you oughta check out the growing "Jury nullification" thread and think it over very carefully.
 
I'm not advocating fighting our Gov't by any means. So don't don your military BDU's and start talking to god on a 2-way radio just yet. I'm only curious to see if people who actually believe what their saying are ballsy enough to take a stand, whether they make a differece or not doesn't matter.
I got a funny feeling a couple people on here would have given the names of Jews to the SS. :eek:
 
Do you really think anyone is foolish enough to answer your question on a public forum?

John
(sorry, I'm new and don't know how to do the "quote" thing.)

To answer your question directly, YES. I do. Why would it be foolish? Are you afraid of something by voicing your opinion on the matter? Surley people on here who post their gun and ammo stash are a bit more foolish?
 
I recognized what your question meant as soon as I saw it. Anybody who thinks they're going to mount an offensive against the government and win is going to end up shooting himself in the mirror.

My initial response was to say that the process has already started, but in an underhanded sort of way. It is not "something that is going to soon happen", but is well under way.

It can only be countered by use of the ballot box, which, since media is owned by power, isn't going to happen, or by underhanded tricks, like jury nullification.

In any real conflict, your popgun of choice will be worthless.
 
I'm on the same level with you invention. I'm fully aware of what would happen. It's all the more reason we need to stand together.

My only point is the the 2A gives us guns for a reason. And they aren't for hunting, plinking, or competions.
 
Tell us there Nuker...you going to do it? :)

Tell us when you will start voting from the rooftops.

WildmeijustwanttogobacktobedAlaska
 
If the fed's come to take our law-abiding citizens firearms, How many of you will make the decision to fight? I don't mean in the courts either. Who here is actually willing to use to hot lead to let the Gov't know they have truly violated our rights?
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It only took two sniper murderers in the VA / Washington D.C. area to cause a mass panic by randomly killing innocent people.

There are approximately 118,000 registered members on AR15.com. Many of these people are quite articulate in describing why the 2nd Amendment was written into the constitution.

Anymore questions?
 
I suppose having your Congressmen in your email address book is a step in the right direction. Who in here has even that one covered? How about regularly attend city council meetings? If you don't do that much, no good results can be expected.
 
Yellowfin: Yes, and I write them when something irks me.

Brent: What you are suggesting cannot happen. It would require coordination. Can you say PATRIOT act and ECHELON? How about COINTELPRO?

You're gonna have to fight dirty to counter the already-in-place dirty tricks. and by "dirty" I mean very sneakily. Force will be smashed, I assure you.
 
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