Hey guys, I've been looking for this round everywhere online and can't seem to find anyone selling it, or if they do they are out of stock!! Another alternative I've been trying to find is Hornady's version of #4 buck with Versatite (I believe they're marketing it as a varmint load.) What's the deal? My guess is that since 00 buck is in more demand sellers replenish those more often. By the way in case you're all wondering this is basically my apartment load. I'd love to test the pattern on the ammo mentioned above, if I could just get my hands on some!!
Federal #4 buckshot with Flitecontrol...
- Thread starter Epyon
- Start date
Federal's Flight Control wads are loaded with #4, 5 or 6 Bird shot, not Buck shot. (#4 Bird shot and #4 Buck shot are vastly different)
Flight Controls were designed for long range bird shooting and the wad doesn't separate from the shot string until about a dozen yards from the muzzle. If you're thinking of using Flight Controls as an apartment HD load, you might as well be shooting slugs. IMHO, Flight Controls on pheasants, okay -- for HD, a poor choice.
Flight Controls were designed for long range bird shooting and the wad doesn't separate from the shot string until about a dozen yards from the muzzle. If you're thinking of using Flight Controls as an apartment HD load, you might as well be shooting slugs. IMHO, Flight Controls on pheasants, okay -- for HD, a poor choice.
Rampant_Colt
New member
Federal Tactical with FliteControl isn't available in #4 buck, only 00 and 000..
Use the Hornady load, just make sure it's #4 buckshot, and not birdshot.
Fiocchi makes a 21-pellet no. 4 buck @ 1250 FPS that would be a good load for apartment/condo dwellers.
May i suggest getting some 0 or #1 buckshot instead?
Use the Hornady load, just make sure it's #4 buckshot, and not birdshot.
Fiocchi makes a 21-pellet no. 4 buck @ 1250 FPS that would be a good load for apartment/condo dwellers.
May i suggest getting some 0 or #1 buckshot instead?
I've used several Flitecontrol 00 Buck loads through several shotguns this summer, will be doing so in two more in the next two or three weeks.
I don't drop down any farther in pellet sizes, can't comment on them.
I do recommend the 00 Buck FCs for defensive uses where tight patterns are needed, indoors or out.
The stuff is just flat magical.
Denis
I don't drop down any farther in pellet sizes, can't comment on them.
I do recommend the 00 Buck FCs for defensive uses where tight patterns are needed, indoors or out.
The stuff is just flat magical.
Denis
LanceOregon
Moderator
Epyon:
This is a brand new load that just came out only a few months ago. It does not seem like a lot of dealers are stocking it yet.
I would recommend this load over the Hornady. With 34 hard copper plated #4 Buckshot in the shell, it is the PERFECT 2 3/2 inch 12 gauge sell defense load in my opinion. It is both a reduced recoil load, as well as including the Flitecontrol wad system.
The Federal part number for ordering the ammo is PD156.
I don't know how to explain why it is out of stock everywhere currently. I checked a few places, and none of them have it, or the new Hornady load either, available right now.
.
This is a brand new load that just came out only a few months ago. It does not seem like a lot of dealers are stocking it yet.
I would recommend this load over the Hornady. With 34 hard copper plated #4 Buckshot in the shell, it is the PERFECT 2 3/2 inch 12 gauge sell defense load in my opinion. It is both a reduced recoil load, as well as including the Flitecontrol wad system.
The Federal part number for ordering the ammo is PD156.
I don't know how to explain why it is out of stock everywhere currently. I checked a few places, and none of them have it, or the new Hornady load either, available right now.
.
LanceOregon
Moderator
Even with a tight pattern, there is no way that the pattern density of the 00 Buckshot load will be anywhere close to this #4 Buckshot load. There is simply no comparison. This load has 3.8 times the number of buckshot in it.
.
Last edited:
Rampant_Colt
New member
Thanks for the update, Lance
PD156
from Federal's site:
PD156
from Federal's site:
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/print/details/buckshot.aspx?id=908
LanceOregon
Moderator
So you are saying that you are not aware of the mortality effect of having a denser pattern?
.
LanceOregon
Moderator
Rampant:
Federal also makes a magnum version of this load for law enforcement called the P156 4B. In fact, it has been available to LE only for some time now. It is a real heavy recoiling load, though, with the same 34 #4 hard copper plated Buckshot traveling at 1,250 fps. I would not recommend it in a pump gun, though, as it is quite stout even in my FN Self-Loading Police.
This new load that we have been discussing is designed to give civilians the same sort of firepower, but at reduced recoil. While the payload is the same, velocity on this new PD156 is only 1,100 fps.
Most people don't know about this law enforcement load because:
1) It is not listed on Federal's website
2) It has very limited distribution, as it is supposed to only be sold to law enforcement. It is thus extremely difficult to get hold off.
I managed to stock up on some a couple of years ago, when I found a dealer with it in stock that was willing to break the rules and sell it to a civilian like myself.
If you check the Federal Law Enforcement products catalog, though, you will see it listed there in the buckshot ammo:
http://glarp.atk.com/2010/2010_Catalogs/FederalLECatalog.pdf
Federal also makes a magnum version of this load for law enforcement called the P156 4B. In fact, it has been available to LE only for some time now. It is a real heavy recoiling load, though, with the same 34 #4 hard copper plated Buckshot traveling at 1,250 fps. I would not recommend it in a pump gun, though, as it is quite stout even in my FN Self-Loading Police.
This new load that we have been discussing is designed to give civilians the same sort of firepower, but at reduced recoil. While the payload is the same, velocity on this new PD156 is only 1,100 fps.
Most people don't know about this law enforcement load because:
1) It is not listed on Federal's website
2) It has very limited distribution, as it is supposed to only be sold to law enforcement. It is thus extremely difficult to get hold off.
I managed to stock up on some a couple of years ago, when I found a dealer with it in stock that was willing to break the rules and sell it to a civilian like myself.
If you check the Federal Law Enforcement products catalog, though, you will see it listed there in the buckshot ammo:
http://glarp.atk.com/2010/2010_Catalogs/FederalLECatalog.pdf
Lance,
Thanks for the link to Federal's law enforcement .pdf document. I made my recommendations based on the data available at their civilian sporting ammo site. If I read their specs correctly, the "Federal Premium" P156 4B LE loads don't have the Flight Control wads in question. In Fed's LE loads, it seems Flight Control wads are used only in "Tactical Buckshot" and are a reduced load of 00 Buck shot intended to deliver very tight patterns with milder recoil. Is this your understanding?
Thanks for the link to Federal's law enforcement .pdf document. I made my recommendations based on the data available at their civilian sporting ammo site. If I read their specs correctly, the "Federal Premium" P156 4B LE loads don't have the Flight Control wads in question. In Fed's LE loads, it seems Flight Control wads are used only in "Tactical Buckshot" and are a reduced load of 00 Buck shot intended to deliver very tight patterns with milder recoil. Is this your understanding?
Lance,
I wasn't quite sure what point you were trying to make.
If you're saying that pattern density is greater with the #4 Buck than with the 00 Buck loads, and therefore more effective, that clears it up for me.
If you believe that, fine. Use what you like.
I have zero interest in a battle over pellet sizes. I have my own choices based on my own reasons, but my primary purpose in getting into this thread was to address Zippy's comment that the Flitecontrol wad is not loaded with buckshot, and secondarily to state that my experience with Flitecontrol 00 Buck has been positive through several shotguns this year.
Let's modify my recommendation, if it offends you.
I recommend 2 3/4-inch Flitecontrol 00 Buck for defensive uses FOR THOSE WHO PREFER 00 BUCK for such purposes.
For those who prefer smaller pellets, as I said- I have no experience & no comment.
Better?
Denis
I wasn't quite sure what point you were trying to make.
If you're saying that pattern density is greater with the #4 Buck than with the 00 Buck loads, and therefore more effective, that clears it up for me.
If you believe that, fine. Use what you like.
I have zero interest in a battle over pellet sizes. I have my own choices based on my own reasons, but my primary purpose in getting into this thread was to address Zippy's comment that the Flitecontrol wad is not loaded with buckshot, and secondarily to state that my experience with Flitecontrol 00 Buck has been positive through several shotguns this year.
Let's modify my recommendation, if it offends you.
I recommend 2 3/4-inch Flitecontrol 00 Buck for defensive uses FOR THOSE WHO PREFER 00 BUCK for such purposes.
For those who prefer smaller pellets, as I said- I have no experience & no comment.
Better?
Denis
DPris,
Have you been able to locate a single source that lists all of Fed's FlightControl wad applications? I didn't realize my initial search was abridged as it listed FlightControls only in #4, #5 and #6 Bird shot. I mistakenly assumed Epyon had confused #4 Buck for #4 Bird, a common misunderstanding. Seems I was the one confused.
z
Have you been able to locate a single source that lists all of Fed's FlightControl wad applications? I didn't realize my initial search was abridged as it listed FlightControls only in #4, #5 and #6 Bird shot. I mistakenly assumed Epyon had confused #4 Buck for #4 Bird, a common misunderstanding. Seems I was the one confused.
z
Zippy,
No, not all.
I only asked Federal about (ignore this, Lance ) 00 Buck loads, so I have no specific info on anything else with the Flitecontrol wads. I also don't hunt with a shotgun, so I have not pursued any of the smaller shot loads. My experience with all of the Flitecontrol stuff has been strictly in defensive shotguns.
Some partial info:
LE13300 8 Pellet at 1145 FPS
PD13200 (Personal Defense) 9 Pellet at 1145 FPS
PFC154 Vital Shok 9 Pellet (hunting) 1325 FPS
PFC15700 Vital Shok (3 inch) 12 Pellet (hunting) 1325 FPS
LE12700 9 Pellet 1325 FPS
I think I have a couple more Flitecontrol loads here, but I'm too lazy at the moment to go dig 'em out.
Those are "box" figures on the velocities used for comparison, I don't chronograph buckshot.
The Flitecontrol wads, modified for each application, are designed to produce tight groups at either standard or reduced velocities, in whichever shot charge used. The wad contains the shot charge longer, and it's a sophisticated design.
It even reduces shot spread markedly in 3-inch magnum 00 Buck loads that traditionally spread much more rapidly than 2 3/4-inch 00 Buck.
Denis
No, not all.
I only asked Federal about (ignore this, Lance
) 00 Buck loads, so I have no specific info on anything else with the Flitecontrol wads. I also don't hunt with a shotgun, so I have not pursued any of the smaller shot loads. My experience with all of the Flitecontrol stuff has been strictly in defensive shotguns.Some partial info:
LE13300 8 Pellet at 1145 FPS
PD13200 (Personal Defense) 9 Pellet at 1145 FPS
PFC154 Vital Shok 9 Pellet (hunting) 1325 FPS
PFC15700 Vital Shok (3 inch) 12 Pellet (hunting) 1325 FPS
LE12700 9 Pellet 1325 FPS
I think I have a couple more Flitecontrol loads here, but I'm too lazy at the moment to go dig 'em out.
Those are "box" figures on the velocities used for comparison, I don't chronograph buckshot.
The Flitecontrol wads, modified for each application, are designed to produce tight groups at either standard or reduced velocities, in whichever shot charge used. The wad contains the shot charge longer, and it's a sophisticated design.
It even reduces shot spread markedly in 3-inch magnum 00 Buck loads that traditionally spread much more rapidly than 2 3/4-inch 00 Buck.
Denis
LanceOregon
Moderator
Yes, that is correct Zippy. The P156 4B load does not use the Flight Control Wads.
I shoot the ammo using a Light Modified Choke in my FN SLP, and it makes for very tight dense patterns.
.
LanceOregon
Moderator
Denis:
There was no offense taken.
I see that you have since explained that you have no experiencing hunting with shotguns, and have thus never shot any living flesh with a shotgun.
This explains your lack of knowledge about the devastating affect that higher pattern density has on living tissue. This is something that is common knowledge to folks who hunt with shotguns. When living flesh gets hit by a dense pattern, it is literally ripped to shreds. The wounds are absolutely monsterous in nature to behold.
Even the tightest pattern of 00 Buck will not have a pattern density anything close to what this ammo being discussed can produce. The destruction caused will thus be no where comparable.
Hunters have to be especially careful to avoid shooting game with too dense a pattern. For the meat on the animal is then so badly damaged, that it is ruined.
So this is something that hunting with a shotgun would teach you.
.
Lance,
For defensive applications, and my own uses, the 00 Buck meets my needs.
I'm aware of pattern density, I'm aware of its effects on "flesh", and I have no need to be taught the benefits of smaller shot.
Pattern density quite likely is more of a concern in a hunting application than a defensive one, and it's probably important to separate the two fields of use.
On humans, pattern density is not the only factor to be considered.
Denis
For defensive applications, and my own uses, the 00 Buck meets my needs.
I'm aware of pattern density, I'm aware of its effects on "flesh", and I have no need to be taught the benefits of smaller shot.
Pattern density quite likely is more of a concern in a hunting application than a defensive one, and it's probably important to separate the two fields of use.
On humans, pattern density is not the only factor to be considered.
Denis
So it's not just me then, it would appear that for some reason both companies aren't selling their #4 buck with shot cup. Currently what I was able to find locally was Federal #4 buck power shok. Hopefully when the next gun show rolls around maybe I'll have better luck finding it there. I would love to have 00 buck but right now but I do consider the fact I live in an apartment. (But I do have low recoil slugs I got for an excellent deal and free shipping!
) As for the suggestion of 0 buck and #1 buck. I will definitely experiment with that, I have read on a shotgun forum once about #1 buck is a great round, but very much an underdog round in that it's not widely produced.
) As for the suggestion of 0 buck and #1 buck. I will definitely experiment with that, I have read on a shotgun forum once about #1 buck is a great round, but very much an underdog round in that it's not widely produced.