FBI takes 556 guns in ALABAMA, 11 will be charged

This is why I think most FTF gun sales are a problem. If someone comes from a neighboring state to buy your gun federal law has been violated. If the person doesn't mention they are a felon or are prone to domestic violence and you sell them a gun that is a problem. If the person commits a crime with the gun you are in trouble civilly and criminally.

The cost of using a FFL is cheap insurance and goes a long way toward limiting your liability.
 
pipoman said:
The cost of using a FFL is cheap insurance and goes a long way toward limiting your liability.
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I'm actually headed to a gun show this weekend, and going to try to sell one of my rifles. (I don't shoot it enough, and I'm sick of looking at it, knowing I'm never going to shoot it.)

Some people had said to me "don't sell to a dealer, they won't pay you squat. sell it privately" but to be honest, i'm much more comfortable with selling it to a dealer. I know i'll take a loss on it, but I'd rather less money & know i'm not going to wind up in trouble at some point down the road.
 
You can buy a long gun from an adjoining state and anyone can lie, FTF or on a form. If you've followed news on TFL for long you'd know doing business as a FFL isn't cheap and doesn't offer much if any protection from liability. This doesn't sound like normal FTF dealings to me. It doesn't sound like someone selling off a few guns that they no longer used. It sounds like someone was doing business without following the law or common sense.
 
If you've followed news on TFL for long you'd know doing business as a FFL isn't cheap and doesn't offer much if any protection from liability.
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My suggestion is not to get an FFL yourself, just to ship through an FFL. If the person lies on the form at their FFL they are in trouble, if the FFL didn't follow the rules he is in trouble, but the sender acting in good faith has limited his liability dramatically.

Some people had said to me "don't sell to a dealer, they won't pay you squat. sell it privately" but to be honest, I'm much more comfortable with selling it to a dealer. I know i'll take a loss on it, but I'd rather less money & know i'm not going to wind up in trouble at some point down the road.
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On-line auctions often will net close to retail, then ship only through an FFL.

If you are doing FTF meet at an FFL, pay his fee ($25-50) and have him handle the sale/trade.
 
You can buy a long gun from an adjoining state and anyone can lie, FTF or on a form.
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You can buy a long gun directly from an FFL in another state, but you cannot buy any gun from an unlicensed individual in another state (unless you have it transfered through an FFL). Handguns must be bought/transfered through an FFL in your state. Thus, if you want to do a FTF, you should at least check their DL to see that they are a citizen of the same state (assuming your state allows FTF transfers).
 
I don't understand. People sell and trade guns all the time without a "federal firearms license" all the time at gun shows. 75% of the people there are just individuals selling guns from their own collection while the other 25% are licensed dealers with stores all over the state. No background check or any of that junk to fool with. I've bought several of my guns like that.
 
The entire problem is that the sellers in the article (y'all DID read the article, right?) were set up as STOREFRONTS and not only obviously selling guns for profit without an FFL, but were selling to folks who SAID they were not eligible to purchase.

In essence it was a black market operation.

And, it has NOTHING to do with P2P sales in the parking lot at a gun show, unless you're buying from the shady-looking critter with a trunk full of randomly mixed inexpensive arms...
 
ATF has theatened several non FFl sellers at gunshows here (Texas). If they see them repeatedly they will threaten them with prosecution.

David
 
how! I mean as I walk the isles of these guns hows most of the people behind the tables are just ordinary guys with their five or ten guns in their collection with price tags on them, they are not licensed dealers. Heck! For that matter, the police will let you walk in with your gun in open sight as long as they can put a plastic line through it to make it inoperable at the front door in case you want to trade or sell it. I've done it! Nobody said "Hey you can't sell that in here, you don't have a fed license."

I'm not understanding where a federal licensed dealer ends and trading between individuals begins. Is illegal selling somewhere in between?
 
I guess they see the same guys month after month with different inventory. Most are older retired guys that do it as a hobby. The thought of dealing with a federal prosecution is daunting to them and no one has the bucks to challenge it.

David
 
The key is your *KNOWLEDGE* of having a prohibited purchaser on your hands. Even if you had an FFL, and regardless of what they put on the white form, if there's evidence you KNOW they're lying (or are undercover purporting to be a prohibited purchaser), then having the ffl & 4473 doesn't excuse you. These guys would not have been charged had the undercovers not said "I'm a felon" and "I'm from across the border in TN" and whathaveyou, and the sellers sold to them anyway.
 
I don't know about the parking lot dealers

seems poor form and fishy to me... as for in the show...I've seen old retired guys who were as tough as any ffl form in selling a gun. I've seen one guy take a gun out of a buyers hand when the buyer said he had come all the way from out of state looking for that specific pistol.
 
Realistically, this is little different than making a living selling stuff, but without a business license and never charging sales tax. An FFL is a certain type of business license, and these guys were selling a bunch of guns without one.
 
Martin said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives determined that guns the suspects previously bought were recovered at crime scenes ranging from Mobile to Los Angeles.

One gun was used in the attempted slaying of a Chicago police officer and another in a murder-for-hire scheme in New York City, Martin said.
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Sounds like dirty cops and feds selling the guns interstate after their involvement in crimes.

How exactly did the bulk private collectors get ahold of these impounded guns? Probably by means of a "guy they know" working at Chicago PD or NYPD.

I'm much more interested in the travel history of these firearms over the last 5-10 years (i.e. how many times they have been in possession of FBI or BATFE and somehow re-released or sold or "unaccounted for").
 
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