Father has original Colt- Not sure which one

G

GolfGuy

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My father has an original old Colt I have tried to figure out which one it is but I'm not sure. As best I can tell it's an 1860 Army but it's .36 cal. Did that model come in .36 cal?

It has a round barrel and has no other visible markings on it other the .36 cal stamped on the trigger guard. It's in fairly good condition, the original grips are in surprisingly good condition but the metal is pretty rusty all over.

It has been in the family since the Civil War, his Great+ grandfather carried in the war, (for the south in case you were wondering) his family hailed from Tennesee at that time.

For years it was frozen up, the mechanics were jammed and it wouldn't cock and the wedge wouldn't budge and it was missing the loading lever. Several years back, probably 25 years now, he took it in to a gunsmith and had it worked on. The gunsmith soaked it, cleaned it etc.. and repaired the workings and it would cock and operate normally and would disassemble just fine, he replaced the loading lever with a modern replacement that stood out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, I remember him saying the gunsmith was not sure which model it was becasue the round barrel threw him and that's kind of what I'm finding now too.

Any ideas about which one it might be? I'll take a picture of it next time I'm over there and post it but for now any ideas?

Now that I'm getting into this sport, I might have to drop the hint that it's time to pass it down, it sure would look good in a display case on my mantle! :)
 
According to my very old copy of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms, here's one possibility:

Colt "Model 1861 Navy Revolver. Manufactured 1861 through 1873...

36 caliber, 6 shot cylidner. 7 1/2 " barrel, round with the creeping style loading lever...

..barrel marking was ADDRESS COL. SAML COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA. COLTS/PATENT was stamped on the left side of the frame. 36 CAL on the left shoulder of the trigger guard..."

The article also says that while it was nowhere near as common as the 1860 Army and some other Colts, something over 30,000 were made.

HTH.
 
Hmm... that sounds like it, I'm working strictly from memory here and I haven't paid much attention to that gun in 15 or 20 years, but the barrel seems longer than 7 1/2 to me but like I said its been a long time, and you know what they say about men and measuring inches.

I do remember him saying he thought it was a Navy model and maybe thats why the round barrel threw him off (don't the Navy's have oct barrel?). The .36 cal stamp is in the right place and I'll have to take a much closer look at it to see if the barrel and frame markings are there, its pretty rusty.

Thanks for the info!
 
The 1851 Navy had the octagonal barrel and a pivot-type loading lever. The 1861 Navy had the round barrel with integral rammer shroud, and the rack-and-gear-tooth type 'creeping lever.'

If I recall correctly, the '51 Navy was far more popular and stayed in production up to 1873, just like the '61 Navy did. The '60 Army, which was the same in design as the '61 Navy, offered potent .44 caliber firepower in a belt-sized package, something Colt had never done before. The '61 Navy, on the other hand, offered the same power as the earlier '51 model, in about the same size. Lots of reason to switch from a Dragoon to a 1860 Army; not much reason at all to switch from an 1851 Navy to the 1861 model.

I read somewhere that the chief reason for the 1860 Army's creeping loading lever-- a feature that nobody else ever copied, because it had no advantage over the earlier "hinged" or "pivoting" type-- was that Colt's original patents had expired, and they wanted to still be able to say their revolver was patented. it was Colt's PATENT revolving firearm, after all. While it worked OK, metals in those days were softer, and supposedly the creeping lever's gear teeth could raise dents on the inside of the barrel under certain circumstances. Or at least some people back then thought it could.

The creeping lever was at best a questionable design feature. Since the chief "advantage" of the newer Navy over the older was that the newer one had the creeping lever, and since some people didn't trust the creeping lever, that too must have contributed to the 1861 Navy's relatively small production total.

It's a really handsome piece, though. One thing for sure, the 1860 Army and 1861 Navy sure looked swoopy.
 
The 1860 Army and 1861 Navy are nearly the same pistol. The Army is .44 caliber and has a slight "stepped" design to the cylinder (inside as well as outside the chambers) that enlarge it to use the larger army bullets.

The 1860 army pistol.

1860-army-steel.jpg


The 1861 Navy pistol. This is .36 caliber and has a straight cylinder from front to back.

1861-navy.jpg


As you can see for yourself now it is very likely your father has an 1861 Navy pistol.
 
Yep, that definitley looks like it, the bottom one, with straight cylinder and I definitley remember the tooth and gear type loading lever (more like bump and hole) because the replacement one didn't fit very well and theres really nothing to hold it in and it kept falling out, that's probably why it was missing in first place.

Yep, I'm almost positive thats what it is, an 1861 Navy. Do they make firing repros for that model, I guess they must that one has a stamp on the grip that looks modern.

Who makes these do you know? I have to have now! And thanks WG for the pics.

hafoc, thanks for the detailed history, outstanding! I'm going to print these posts and give them to my Dad, he is gonna be tickled to know that much about the gun, he has always been very curious about it and has treasured it as family heirloom.

I'm sure he would LOVE to shoot a repro too. Hmm... Fathers day is coming up soon, maybe I'll surprise him and take him to the range to shoot the one that I'm sure I'm going to buy. Dang, this hobby (obsession) keeps get'n expensiver and expensiver.
 
Dang, this hobby (obsession) keeps get'n expensiver and expensiver.
Click to expand...

Once you've bought and shot your first one, your DOOMED to keep buying more! :D

(I've got 3 Remington 58's now and still want at least 3 more, maybe a dragoon, walker, 51 navy, 60 army......) :rolleyes:
 
You aint kidding! I've already bought 2 Remingtons and I haven't even fired either one yet. In my own defense I think I'm goin to return the Pietta after I have chance to see it side by side with the Uberti (it should be here today) :D and that credit to my card will allow me to buy another one! Woo hoo! See how the male brain works. Just like the female brain in 'shoe shopping mode' I guess.

It's not just the guns that are expensive its all the goodies that go with em. If I was still married I probably wouldn't be for much longer when she found out how much money I spent in the past week on this damn obession! 2 guns, holster, storage case, screwdrivers, mec's book, powder flask, loading stand, powder measure, bore butter, not mention powder and balls and the list goes on and on.

And oh, somehow I ordered 1000 no. 11 caps from cabelas, 10 tins of 100, dang, I need to slow down and pay better attention. And I still don't know if no. 11 are the right size or if I shold have ordered no. 10. I thought $39 seemed awfully expensive for 1 tin of caps! I think 8 or 9 of them will be going back with the Pietta.

I can't wait for all this crap to get here so I can head to the range!
 
Damn, I just looked at cabelas site to see how the heck I ordered 1000 caps and that's only way they sell them, (qty. 1 = 10 tins) and I've already opened one threw the package away so I probably can't return them now.

Caps don't go bad do they? Cause I'll probably have no. 11 caps comin out my A** for years to come!

Anybody in desperate need of a tin of no. 11 caps? Give me your address and I'll drop a tin in the mail to ya! Seriously.
 
Both of those pistols in my last post are Pietta reproductions. So, yes...you can buy 1860 Army and 1861 Navy pistols. There are several websites to choose from to mail order them.

Dixie Gun Works is probably your best bet, since they carry both Uberti and Pietta pistols. Since you already mentioned a previous experience of Remington style revolvers from Pietta, maybe the Uberti one is more to your taste.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=1030

If you want a cheaper Pietta, you can get those from www.IAR-arms.com or the www.EMF-company.com websites.

P.S. The "stamp on the grip" is one of EMF or IAR's marketing ploys. They would brand the wood handles of their pistols with their company logo with some kind of hot iron. However, I think they must have stopped that because the pistols my brother has bought from them (1851 Navy .44 and a Walker Colt) have no branding on the handles. Like I said, they just sell pistols. They don't make them. They get their pistols from Pietta.
 
Golfguy...

Your caps are good for a looong time. I had a tin of remington #10 caps for about 18 years before I finally got started shooting BP. Not a single dud in the tin.
 
When you said no other visable markings but .36 cal, made me think! Colt should say Sammuel Colt across the top of barrel I think...made me think! Has it got a brass Frame? Could it be an original Reb Griswold & Gunnison .36? Jus' a thought:
syv4b8.jpg
 
No, it's steel frame, just the trigger guard is brass. And it doesn't look like that one at all, that's a cool lookin piece though. It's defintiely an 1861 Navy. But even the reproductions aren't quite right. The barrel is tapered quite a bit, it gives it sort of a 'pointy' look rather than blunt and stocky like the repros.

The gun always reminds me of the opening of the Wild Wild West back in the 70's and that tall, skinny cowboy leaning against a wall with one leg up and his head down and he pulls out his six shooter and shoots somebody without even looking. For some reason thats the image that comes to mind when I think of the 1861 Navy, long skinny barrel--tall skinny cowboy. :D
 
One of my most usable revolvers. The 51 was actually introduced in 1850 and had an eleven year jump start on this one. Also, the Colt factory burned down in about 1862. That and the short production run account for the more limited number of 61s made. They totaled in the 30,000 range.
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