Fast varmint loads?

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Max713

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I know there is no be-all-end-all for anything when it comes to handloading... But I'm looking for some new ideas.

I'm searching for a faster, while equally accurate varmint load for my varmint rig. Although unimportant, my rifle is a RRA based AR chambered in 223/556.

I have only ever use H335 in my 223 loads. Not that I have anything against anything else, but the 335 has worked great for me thus far. BUT! I'm searching for something.

As of now, I have a 50gr load at 3150 fps that will print 0.50" groups every single time, and 0.30" groups VERY regularly.

I also have a 40gr load at 3575 fps that prints 0.55" groups, mostly consistently.

My goal? I want as fast and accurate as possible. I don't care the bullet weight (within reason), the powder, etc. This rig is for rats only. Plain and simple. I need speed and precision.

I picked up some Varget the other day to play with some heavier loads, although those will more be for bragging rights on paper than anything else. But I plan to experiment with it in the lighter loads as well.
I love the accuracy of my 50gr load, but its a bit slow for my liking. I'd really like to get up into the 3400 fps range with the same kind of accuracy.

Any insite?
 
You didn't mention your barrel length? I assume 18 or longer. Best combination by a long shot for me was Nosler 55 varmageddon with ar comp powder, lake city 2015 brass and cci mag primers. Just under 3100 fps with a 16" barrel


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Since you aren't shooting long range, why do you feel the velocity is necessary? It seems you have an accurate load that is at more than reasonable velocity with your 50 grain load. More velocity will do nothing for you on rats. I would suggest that you use the accurate load and forget about velocity.
 
You don't mention the range involved. Shooting rats at 300yards and shooting rats at 30 yards do not require the same things.

You have way more than enough power for rats, so the only thing velocity gets you (beyond personal satisfaction) is a change in trajectory & wind drift, and only IF the change in velocity is enough to make both a measureable and a USABLE difference.

Accuracy matters, rats are not large targets, but if you've got something that shoots .5" groups, then any shot is no more than 1/4" off the aiming point, and that's good enough, even for rats.

Mostly it comes down to your wallet. Spending the money for long range precision makes sense. Spending the money on quality bullets, half MOA loads, etc., when shooting rats in the barnyard seems like a waste, to me.

For close range rat wrecking, I would go with a lighter gun (.22LR is classic) over a .223, but if .223 was all I had, or wanted to use, I'd go with the lightest load, and cheapest bullets that produce sufficient accuracy at the intended range.

Also, you might consider the wear on your barrel. They do wear out, you know. Do you want to use up some (or all??) of the your barrel's guilt edged accuracy shooting RATS?? with an AR when something else (and cheaper) might do the job just as well??

Your gun, your call, but I think this says enough...
40 grain at 3575fps and .55 accuracy? Uh....your done.
Click to expand...

Good luck
 
"...that will print 0.50" groups every single time..." I'd be stopping right there and for that reason. Accuracy is far more important than velocity. And consistent accuracy is the most important.
However, changing powders will give you higher velocities. Hodgdon 50 grain CFE 223 and Varget start loads are faster than your accuracy load. With a 40 CFE 223 start loads are faster than H335's max loads.
Going to a 35 grain bullet, that may not stabilize in your rifle, will give you 3,647 fps using start loads. Hodgdon's site data.
3150 fps is a tiny bit below start velocities for a 50 grain bullet and H335. Your 40gr load at 3575fps is a tick over minimum with the CFE too.
What kind of rat? Just curious.
 
You don't mention the range involved. Shooting rats at 300yards and shooting rats at 30 yards do not require the same things.

You have way more than enough power for rats, so the only thing velocity gets you (beyond personal satisfaction) is a change in trajectory & wind drift, and only IF the change in velocity is enough to make both a measureable and a USABLE difference.

Accuracy matters, rats are not large targets, but if you've got something that shoots .5" groups, then any shot is no more than 1/4" off the aiming point, and that's good enough, even for rats.

Mostly it comes down to your wallet. Spending the money for long range precision makes sense. Spending the money on quality bullets, half MOA loads, etc., when shooting rats in the barnyard seems like a waste, to me.

For close range rat wrecking, I would go with a lighter gun (.22LR is classic) over a .223, but if .223 was all I had, or wanted to use, I'd go with the lightest load, and cheapest bullets that produce sufficient accuracy at the intended range.

Also, you might consider the wear on your barrel. They do wear out, you know. Do you want to use up some (or all??) of the your barrel's guilt edged accuracy shooting RATS?? with an AR when something else (and cheaper) might do the job just as well??

Your gun, your call, but I think this says enough...
Click to expand...

I get immense personal satisfaction from vaporizing rats at both near and far distances.

Furthest confirmed kill for me was a little over 500 yards, although shots between 100 and 300 yards are much more common.

I know what I have is plenty, but there is always room for improvement. :D

I have many guns I take with me rat hunting, including 22LR's, 17HMRs, etc. This purpose built varmint AR is the bench gun that delivers the goods at all ranges.

"...that will print 0.50" groups every single time..." I'd be stopping right there and for that reason. Accuracy is far more important than velocity. And consistent accuracy is the most important.
However, changing powders will give you higher velocities. Hodgdon 50 grain CFE 223 and Varget start loads are faster than your accuracy load. With a 40 CFE 223 start loads are faster than H335's max loads.
Going to a 35 grain bullet, that may not stabilize in your rifle, will give you 3,647 fps using start loads. Hodgdon's site data.
3150 fps is a tiny bit below start velocities for a 50 grain bullet and H335. Your 40gr load at 3575fps is a tick over minimum with the CFE too.
What kind of rat? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have tried 35gr V-Max's and they don't shoot well. They're pretty inconsistent no matter what the load.
 
I get your point, I had many good years wrecking rats, sniping crows and wasting woodchucks. :D

My varmint rounds today are .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball, .222Rem, .223 Rem, and .22-250.

I think you're about as far as you can go with the .223, (and if it ain't broke, don't fix it! ;))

The next step up in speed is .22-250. Not AR friendly, really, but I know it can be done. I use bolt guns, mostly. The increased speed of a .22-250 over a .223 is both noticeable and usable. and it makes little pests go poof really well!

OR you could consider the .22 Cheetah (.22/243) wildcat. With the hyper slow powders available today it might not be as bad a barrel burner as it was when first developed. and you will break 4k with the right bullets.

My Hornady book says .223 40gr Vmax hits 3700fps (max) from a 26" Rem 700, with both H335 and IMR 4198. 4198 does it with 5grs less powder than H335, so that might be a powder to explore.

One load 3800fps (max) with AA 2460. I think its going to be more a matter of which powders shoot best through your gun, more than anything else.
 
I have to mention that 40 gn bullets usually don't shoot at all, let alone group well in a barrel with a 9 or 8 twist. More often than not the come apart on exit and if they don't any runout will be heavily pronounced leading to accuracy issues. Also varget will do you little justice unless your barrel is 20". It's pretty slow for a 223 unless you're running compressed loads or something in the 70gr range for bullets. All imo and from my own experience.

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Well, more speed on a varmint bullet generally means less chance of a ricochet, and was a selling point for me as a young guy asking for permission to hunt neighboring dairy farms for woodchucks. Dead is dead, but I've no problem with the OP's search for a faster round. The down side might be add'l noise. Rod
 
I wasn't going to weigh in on this, but Nosler Guy just just posted something that is very wrong. Contrary to what he said, a 40 gr bullet in a 9 twist should work just fine regarding accuracy and holding together. The 40 gr Nosler BT is my favorite bullet in my 223 and in my previous 223, both of which had a 9 twist. That bullet, pushed by H335 at a max load, shoots extremely well in my rifle, with the limit on accuracy being me.

Some of the old thin skinned Sierras, from what I've read, would come apart at high rotational speeds.

If I wanted max bullet speed, I might try AA2230 or Benchmark behind that 40 gr BT.
 
I get your point, I had many good years wrecking rats, sniping crows and wasting woodchucks.

My varmint rounds today are .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball, .222Rem, .223 Rem, and .22-250.

I think you're about as far as you can go with the .223, (and if it ain't broke, don't fix it! )

The next step up in speed is .22-250. Not AR friendly, really, but I know it can be done. I use bolt guns, mostly. The increased speed of a .22-250 over a .223 is both noticeable and usable. and it makes little pests go poof really well!

OR you could consider the .22 Cheetah (.22/243) wildcat. With the hyper slow powders available today it might not be as bad a barrel burner as it was when first developed. and you will break 4k with the right bullets.

My Hornady book says .223 40gr Vmax hits 3700fps (max) from a 26" Rem 700, with both H335 and IMR 4198. 4198 does it with 5grs less powder than H335, so that might be a powder to explore.

One load 3800fps (max) with AA 2460. I think its going to be more a matter of which powders shoot best through your gun, more than anything else.
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A high speed bolt gun is in the plan... Priorities!

I've had a few other recommendations of 4198 as well, I didn't realize the difference in max charges was so great. I haven't messed with that powder before, I wonder if it is "less dense" than others. I'll have to give it a try.

You're exactly right though, its just going to come down to what my gun likes.
What we're forgetting is that I'm 100% satisfied with the VELOCITY of my 40gr load (3550fps), I'd just like them to be a tiny bit more consistent.

Anyways, picked up a pound of BLC 2 and CFE 223 today to try out :cool:
 
As I mentioned, my most used bullet these days is the 40 gr Nosler BT, over H335. The accuracy of that load had been excellent. Eventually I used up all my loads, so I set up to load a couple hundred more rounds. As I normally do when reloading, I'll shoot the first 5 or so to check accuracy. I did that, and accuracy was poor. Hmmm. As it turned out, I was seating the new loads to a COAL of 2.26, whereas my accuracy load (from measuring a couple of rounds that remained upshot) was 2.267 inches. I loaded up some at that OAL and they shot great. I remembered that I had found that the longer length load shot great, but I never wrote it in my load book. It's in there now.

My point here is that, if you haven't already done so, try some loads at varying lengths, after measuring for max possible COAL.
 
If you really want speed, try, as mentioned, a 22 Cheetah. Mine will run 40 gr. Nosler ballistic tips over 4700 fps, but groups best at 4600. Prairie dogs simply disappear sometimes when hit with this bomb.
 
I've had a few other recommendations of 4198 as well, I didn't realize the difference in max charges was so great. I haven't messed with that powder before, I wonder if it is "less dense" than others. I'll have to give it a try.
Click to expand...

A word about IMR 4198, since you haven't tried it before, it is what it is. ;)

its an IMR powder (Improved Military Rifle) and IMR isn't just part of the name, its a descriptor like "ball" or "flake".

IMR powders are all "stick" type, they look like little bits of mechanical pencil lead. The DO NOT meter the same as ball and flake powders. Nor will they pour through a .22 cal funnel as smoothly. The little "logs" can jam up, so you need to keep an eye on things and tap/vibrate things once in a while when they get stuck.

Some people find the extra attention needed to be an excuse for not using them. Some people are very lazy. ;)

I won't promise you'll get what you're looking for from IMR 4198, many do, some don't, but I think it's worth checking out. Works really well in my .222s.
 
I wasn't going to weigh in on this, but Nosler Guy just just posted something that is very wrong. Contrary to what he said, a 40 gr bullet in a 9 twist should work just fine regarding accuracy and holding together. The 40 gr Nosler BT is my favorite bullet in my 223 and in my previous 223, both of which had a 9 twist. That bullet, pushed by H335 at a max load, shoots extremely well in my rifle, with the limit on accuracy being me.
Click to expand...

I agree.....reading that post had me considering doing what you did....H335 with a 40 gr V-max shoots very, very well out of my 9 twist DPMS Bull 20
 
Yes I meant 8 or faster usually causes serious problems with the bullet at very high speeds. Either way a 9 twist is not even remotely optimum. Despite your opinions based on those bullets shooting ok in your 9 twist rifle my info is actually based on data produced by professionals multiple times over. This doesn't mean you can't shoot them in an 8 barrel. It means that it's not optimal or your best bullet choice for the trendy ar style fast twist rifle.


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Glad someone finally mentioned barrel twist rate,
Twist rate is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT variable when shooting light/fast bullets...

I've shot light/fast/accurate most of my life, and when I want to shoot 40 grains & under I have a heck of a time finding a slow enough barrel twist.
 
Reply from a female coyote Hunter probably not what your looking for but I've found benchmark under a 50-55 grain bullet in my ar to give me sub moa groups everyday. Have been riding power line right of ways and shooting coyotes every chance I get to keep them off our deer land. 300-400 yards no issues. 9 twist in mine but I've never reloaded a 40 grain bullet in it. Favorite is a 79 grain and the benchmark meters great. Benchmark is relatively good for me in any temperature and is super easy to find here. I guess I need to chronograph a few mags to see what the speed is.
 
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