I was at the range the other day shooting my Ruger P-89. I fired about 200 rounds of 115 grain S&B ammo. One round failed to fire! I squeezed the trigger again, and that time it DID fire. What would cause this failure to fire? I have never had any problem with my P-89 and suspect that it was a bad primer. Any opinions? What about S&B quality?
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Failure to fire; why did it do that?
- Thread starter martin6
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The priming compound is a bit like the white tip of a "strike anywhere" match--in performance, not chemistry.
The small priming pellet is sandwiched between the primer cup and the anvil--built into the case if that S&B is Berdan primed, or pressed into the primer cup if the ammo is good ol' American Boxer primed*.
A skimpy dose of priming compound can result in a thin pellet that's not really sandwiched tight and which may even have a gap. The first firing pin strike can close up the gap. If that action neither crumbles the pellet, nor ignites it, you can have a second-strike success in firing the round. Primers not seated all the way down can contribute to this, as the firing pin strike completes the seating operation and soaks up energy that would have smashed the pellet and started the party rolling.
With many hammer-fired weapons, these primer problems can be imitated by the slide or bolt being as little as 1/16 back from fully forward. The hammer strikes the lower rear corner of the slide or bolt first--the angle if impact with back of the slide or bolt slows down the hammer before it strikes the firing pin. That same early impact almost always pushes the slide or bolt forward, making it look like nothing was wrong with the operating cycle.
*But wasn't Berdan an American and Boxer a European of some sort? Strange things happen.
The small priming pellet is sandwiched between the primer cup and the anvil--built into the case if that S&B is Berdan primed, or pressed into the primer cup if the ammo is good ol' American Boxer primed*.
A skimpy dose of priming compound can result in a thin pellet that's not really sandwiched tight and which may even have a gap. The first firing pin strike can close up the gap. If that action neither crumbles the pellet, nor ignites it, you can have a second-strike success in firing the round. Primers not seated all the way down can contribute to this, as the firing pin strike completes the seating operation and soaks up energy that would have smashed the pellet and started the party rolling.
With many hammer-fired weapons, these primer problems can be imitated by the slide or bolt being as little as 1/16 back from fully forward. The hammer strikes the lower rear corner of the slide or bolt first--the angle if impact with back of the slide or bolt slows down the hammer before it strikes the firing pin. That same early impact almost always pushes the slide or bolt forward, making it look like nothing was wrong with the operating cycle.
*But wasn't Berdan an American and Boxer a European of some sort? Strange things happen.
Recommendation:
When you get a misfire, do not try again. Wait several minutes then eject the round and determine if the primer mark indicates too light or no strike (gun problem) or a normal strike (ammo problem).
Wait is to ensure that you are not dealing with a hangfire; you don't want the cartridge to go off in your hand.
Jim
When you get a misfire, do not try again. Wait several minutes then eject the round and determine if the primer mark indicates too light or no strike (gun problem) or a normal strike (ammo problem).
Wait is to ensure that you are not dealing with a hangfire; you don't want the cartridge to go off in your hand.
Jim
I shot my Kel-Tec P11 at the range last week. I was shooting a 50 round box of S&B 115 gr. 9mm ammo also. I must of had at least 2 failures to fire which fired on the second pull. I'll check the round next time for the firing pin impression. However, when I fire my carry ammo, Triton Quik-Shok, I have never encountered a failure to fire in over 200 rounds.
With my S&W 686 Plus, I sometimes have the same problem with PMC ammo, but not with Triton QS.
Axel
With my S&W 686 Plus, I sometimes have the same problem with PMC ammo, but not with Triton QS.
Axel
singleshot
New member
Mr. Keenan's comments are exactly right.
A failure to fire- especially in autoloaders- is only rarely a primer problem. Most of the time it is that the round has failed to fully chamber. The slide is closed enough so the gun could fire, but the energy of the hammer strike is absorbed pushing the round the rest of the way into the chamber. If you take one of those out and examine the primer you'll usually see only a very small dent in the primer. When you try to shoot again it will fire because it then receives all the force of the firing pin.
The most common cause of this type of malfuntion is a dirty gun or one that is inadequately lubricated.
Defective ammo (assuming that you're shooting factory) is really rare. Another cause that can't be overlooked is a weak recoil spring that doesn't have enough power to push the slide fully shut.
A failure to fire- especially in autoloaders- is only rarely a primer problem. Most of the time it is that the round has failed to fully chamber. The slide is closed enough so the gun could fire, but the energy of the hammer strike is absorbed pushing the round the rest of the way into the chamber. If you take one of those out and examine the primer you'll usually see only a very small dent in the primer. When you try to shoot again it will fire because it then receives all the force of the firing pin.
The most common cause of this type of malfuntion is a dirty gun or one that is inadequately lubricated.
Defective ammo (assuming that you're shooting factory) is really rare. Another cause that can't be overlooked is a weak recoil spring that doesn't have enough power to push the slide fully shut.
cornered rat
Moderator
More trivia: in Russia, Berdan or "Berdanka" (diminitive) meant a break-open shotgun. Not sure why, as the inventor seemed to concentrate on rifles.
I found PMC and handloads using CCI primers to have frequent failures to fire in some guns. 3D also uses hard primers. SA firing seems much more reliable in that case than DA.
I found PMC and handloads using CCI primers to have frequent failures to fire in some guns. 3D also uses hard primers. SA firing seems much more reliable in that case than DA.
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