Factory loads: 44mag or 45colt vs grizzly?

B

Biff Tannen

New member
Sorry about the "vs" thread, but I have to ask advice...
While hiking in Grizzly country, for self defense, would u rather have a 44mag or 45colt revolver full of factory ammo?
And finally, what ammo would you choose?
 
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Makes no difference, you would lose the majority of time. Even a 270 or 30-6 have not finished a grizzly in full charge unless they hit CNS. Griz enormous cardiovascular system would sustain them long enough to tear you apart. Get some spray and carry the gun to finish if they won't split.
 
This reminds me of a story I heard one time about a fellow that was new to Alaska and was showing an oldtimer his new .44 Mag revolver and asked him his opinion on his new gun.

The old Alaska hand looked at the gun and suggested that he file the front sight off.

"Why would I want to do that?" the newcomer asked.

"So when the bear shoves it up your a$$ it won't hurt as much" the oldtimer replied.

:D
 
It depends on which factory ammo you're talking about. If you include boutique makers like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Underwood, Grizzly, and Cor-Bon then it's six in one hand or half a dozen in the other. If you restrict the choices to "mainstream" ammo houses like Federal, Hornady, Remington, Speer, and Winchester then .44 Magnum is the clear choice.
 
^ With the easy availability of ammunition mentioned, or by hand-loading, there is no significant difference. Either one can kill anything on earth with a hard cast bullet and a good sized meplat. Either one will stop any bear if there is proper shot placement.
 
The availability of factory "bear defense" ammo is much greater in .44 mag than it is in .45 Colt. But, being a handloader, my preference would be which platform was more accurate for me and the one that gave me the quickest and most accurate follow up shots.
 
As stated above I would step up you bear gun. If you could only have a sidearm go with the 500 S&W. The speed at which the bears can close on you is scary and I would want as much gun as I could seeing how you may only be able to get off one shot.
 
The availability of factory "bear defense" ammo is much greater in .44 mag than it is in .45 Colt.
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And since the op specifically limited his choices to available factory loaded ammunition for his own reasons, then I too would recommend the .44 Magnum.
 
With the easy availability of ammunition mentioned, or by hand-loading, there is no significant difference. Either one can kill anything on earth with a hard cast bullet and a good sized meplat. Either one will stop any bear if there is proper shot placement.
Click to expand...

The OP specified factory ammunition only hence my previous comments. For a handloader with an adequately strong gun, it's the same situation as with boutique ammo: six in one hand and half a dozen in the other. I would, however, note that even for a handloader the .44 Magnum has a slight edge in a DA revolver since the larger rim allows more positive extraction than does the miniscule rim of the .45 Long Colt. For bear defense, however, speedy reloading probably isn't part of the equation.
 
Thread here just last year I believe, older fellow with .454 Ruger Alaskan got off a couple shots, bullets jumped crimp, and revolver jammed. Bear ended up dead at his feet. Statistics, listed here repeatedly, show that handguns are essentially as effective, actually more effective by the numbers, as long guns with pepper spray being most "effective." - all very close in effectiveness. They all work, you need to make it count. Easier said than done. That one fellow wrote a book about his unfortunate situation does not change the "statistics." Article by Smith and Herrero "Efficacy of firearms for bear deterrence in Alaska" from Journal of Wildlife Management. This is one dead horse.

Abstract
We compiled, summarized, and reviewed 269 incidents of bear–human conflict involving firearms that occurred in Alaska during 1883–2009. Encounters involving brown bears (Ursus arctos; 218 incidents, 81%), black bears (Ursus americanus; 30 incidents, 11%), polar bears (Ursus maritimus; 6 incidents, 2%), and 15 (6%) unidentified species provided insight into firearms success and failure. A total of 444 people and at least 367 bears were involved in these incidents. We found no significant difference in success rates (i.e., success being when the bear was stopped in its aggressive behavior) associated with long guns (76%) and handguns (84%). Moreover, firearm bearers suffered the same injury rates in close encounters with bears whether they used their firearms or not. Bears were killed in 61% (n = 162) of bear–firearms incidents. Additionally, we identified multiple reasons for firearms failing to stop an aggressive bear. Using logistic regression, the best model for predicting a successful outcome for firearm users included species and cohort of bear, human activity at time of encounter, whether or not the bear charged, and if fish or game meat was present. Firearm variables (e.g., type of gun, number of shots) were not useful in predicting outcomes in bear–firearms incidents. Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear. Where firearms have failed to protect people, we identified contributing causes. Our findings suggest that only those proficient in firearms use should rely on them for protection in bear country. © 2012 The Wildlife Society.
 
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^ Thanks for the link. Wow, over three years ago. Time flies. You will be fortunate to have time to get more than one or to shots off.
 
Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was looking for hikers' self defense against grizzly input and information...
The correction is now edited into the thread question.
 
I thought we were staying on topic....

But to answer your question directly - I have Redhawks in both 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. I would carry either one in grizz country. When loaded to their potential, they are very close ballistically.

For factory ammo, look at Buffalo Bore.

Their 325 grain hardcast load in 45 Colt does 1269 fps out of my 4 inch Redhawk. This is what I carry although my own reloads are pretty close in performance.

Their 340 grain hardcast load in 44 Magnum is supposed to do 1401 fps out of a 5.5 inch Redhawk. I haven't chrono'd this load because I like my own reloads.

What you want is a hardcast bullet with a wide meplat that weighs at least 300 grains doing at least 1200 fps. That BB 325 grain 45LC load is pretty much the sweet spot for a hiking gun in grizz country.

If you don't reload, then forget about 45LC and get a 44 Mag.

Of course, all of this depends on having the proper gun.
 
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I got to see brown bears up close (about 30-50 feet away) when I visited Alaska back in the summer. The sheer size and strength of them was both majestic and terrifying at the same time. If I had to pick a relatively easy-to-tote gun to tote in brown bear country it would be a lever action rifle in a something like .45-70 or stronger. IMHO even a S&W 500 would be marginal at best.

I own a .44mag Redhawk (loaded with heavy for caliber LFN ammo from Buffalo Bore) and have no doubt it would handle anything under 1000lbs. Brown bear in Alaska are a different story. My advice, if you want just a handgun in grizzly territory... I would say your EDC would be fine because you would be better off just sparing yourself the horror of being mauled to death by a grizzly. Sorry to be so morbid but having seen them up close, it's my honest advice.
 
Get whatever one you feel more comfy with. You obviously are going to go to that as a first line of defense, so practice, practice, practice. Shot placement is everything, and once you can consistently hit a 15" ball bouncing down a 45 degree embankment then you're halfway there. For a shooting under pressure exercise, have a friend stand behind you and crack the back of your legs with a bamboo cane every time you miss. Gets the heart rate up in a hurry. :)
 
I'd go with .45 Colt since I don't have anything that shoots .44mag.

Do you have one or the other? If so, use it and be happy. :)
 
44mag has much more power. Go with hard bullet for penetration. My cousins who is an avid outdoorsman and Hunter move to Alaska 15 years ago and still carries his 44 Magnum on his fishing trips.
 
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