factory .44mag penetration. Should I be surprised?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I went to the range yesterday. Bit of rifle work, some OAL measuring and crimp comparison on reloads and a single 240gr SP factory Sellier & Bellot cartridge.

I'd taken with me to the range something I had previously only used in archery practice. One of those cardboard boxes that have the reams of printing paper in them. I have filled it with scrap pages and glossy magazines as a make-shift target for my .22 out in the fields.

I decided to see what a .44 bullet would do so I shot the S&B cartridge from a few feet away out of my 4" Ruger RH.

Result was only about 1.5-2" of penetration!! :eek: (At least I know it makes an effective bullet-catcher!!)
I can say that the bullet core seperated from the jacket about 60% of the way in and spread into an impressive 1" star so expansion was there.

I know that dry, tightly packed paper is not the most giving material and is pretty dense, so not very telling of a soft target result.

Consequently, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I'd thought it might do more than that. I expect 240gr FMJ would go further in and I expect a heavier bullet would do the same.

Retrospectively, I should have conmpared the 240gr with one of my 200gr starting load cartridges....

Maybe a test for when I get those 300-grainers
 
About 30 years ago I had some boxes of NCR forms that had been misprinted and I used them at the range for penetration experiment with .22 magnums from a revolver. I recall penetration of a little more than a ream but the hollow points "bruising" from the dispersal of energy was seen on the NCR forms for about 6" in this densely packed paper. I am shocked at the low penetration from any .44 Mag
 
Ahoy Pond,

Used to carry a 4" S&W 29-3, and tested the 44mag 240 gr semi-jacketed flat point carry ammo, Winchester standard factory deer hunting load.

Test medium: 5 - 2x6 inch spruce wood boards.

Ammo tested:

Fiocchi 9mm 123 gr - penetrated all five boards, lodged in 1st backstop

Military surplus Tokarev 7.62mm 85gr - penetrated all five boards, 1st backstop and lodged in 2nd backstop

Winchester 44 Mag 240gr sjfp - penetrated 4 boards, lodged mid-way thru 5th board.

The smallest and lightest bullet, the Tokarev 85gr bullet penetrated the deepest.

"Maybe a test for when I get those 300-grainers " [Pond]

With a 300 gr bullet the right amount of powder is needed for deep penetration, depends on the manufacturer, Buffalo Bore makes hot ammo.

Cardboard and paper can make for decent cover. There are documented cases of soldiers being saved by small bibles carried in chest pockets that stopped a rifle bullet.
 
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If you look around you can find actual performance on game . My old load was a Speer 225 3/4 jacket HP . The only one I recovered went almost through 30" of deer. Premium bullets today ,Barnes 225 gr, Speer Deep Curl ,Swift A-frame are available as factory loads and penetrate very well.Typical defense loads won't do nearly as well because they're not designed to !! So the selection is there just pick the one that fits your requirements !
 
That is why so many like hard cast bullets such as the LBT design with large melpats. This is from Handloands.com website and the tests involve wet news paper and in some cases a large leg bone:



Tests were conducted at the Linebaugh Seminar in Cody, Wy June 2002, 2003, 2004. Two bullets were fired, one into stacks of wet paper, and another into a 4" dia. beef knuckle joint bone backed by wet paper. Loads with n/a in the paper or paper & bone columns were not fired into that media.

I'd like to thank John Linebaugh for hosting the seminar and orgainizing the tests, and the record keepers who tracked all the loads.

2004 test results obtained from http://forums.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10571

2003 Test results obtained from http://forums.sixgunner.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5110

2002 test results obtained from http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/penetration_test.htm

Click on the column headers to change the order the results are sorted by.


Caliber Bullet Type Bullet Weight (gr) Velocity Paper (in) Paper & Bone (in) Comments
9.3x62 Nosler Ballistic Tip 250 2,725 17.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
600 Nitro Express Barnes Orig FMJ 900 2,316 56.0 56.0 WENT THROUGH PAPER AND BONE AND OUT BOTTOM OF BOARD WRECKING EVERYTHING IN PROCESS
Year tested:2004
505 Barnes S. Barnes FMJ 700 2,347 56.0 n/a Exited box
Year tested:2004
500 S&W WFNGC 440 1,500 n/a 35.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
500 S&W WFN 440 1,445 35.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
500 S&W WFN 440 1,449 40.0 18.0
Year tested:2003
500 Nitro Express SP 570 2,500 14.0 n/a Expanded to 1 5/8", removed the first 6" of paper, & had a 4" wound channel
Year tested:2002
500 Nitro Express SP 570 2,150 25.0 n/a Mushroomed and straight
Year tested:2002
500 Nitro Express Solid 570 2,150 48.0 n/a Tumbled and undamaged
Year tested:2002
500 Nitro Express A Square 570 2,500 55.0 n/a Tumbled, hit the wood, and re-entered the paper
Year tested:2002
500 Maximum LFN 590 1,202 49.5 25.0
Year tested:2003
500 MAX LFN 450 1,443 n/a 48.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
500 Linebaugh (8'' barrel) LFN 485 792 27.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
500 Linebaugh Sierra 400 1,284 16.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
500 Linebaugh LBT 435 1,000 30.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
500 Linebaugh LBT 435 1,000 34.0 n/a The bullet went low, dug a channel in the wood floor, and turned back into the paper
Year tested:2002
500 Linebaugh LBT 435 1,270 38.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
500 Linebaugh Keith 480 1,200 41.0 n/a The bullet tipped at the end of its travel and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
500 Linebaugh Belt Mountain Brass Solid 450 1,297 46.0 43.5
Year tested:2003
500 Linebaugh LBT 495 1,270 52.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
500 Linebaugh LFN 500 1,086 57.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
50 Alaskan LBT 505 1,933 40.0 33.0
Year tested:2003
50 AK BMB 458 2,033 n/a 66.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
50 AK LBT/LFN 540 1,785 45.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
50 AE HP 325 1,780 15.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
480 Ruger XTP 325 1,325 17.0 n/a Straight and Expanded
Year tested:2002
480 Ruger LFN 306 1,058 25.0 7.5 (stopped 1/2” past the bone)
Year tested:2003
480 Ruger CPBC LFN 390 1,147 31.0 4.0 paper, came apart in middle of bone
Year tested:2003
475 Maximum LFN 430 1,450 51.5 17.0
Year tested:2003
475 Linebaugh LBT 420 1,050 40.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
475 Linebaugh LBT 405 1,485 40.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
475 Linebaugh LBT 420 1,335 47.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
475 Linebaugh LFN 430 1,272 64.0 20.0 exited back on paper test
Year tested:2003
470 Nitro Express Woodleigh Solid (300 g.) 500 n/a n/a 62.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
470 Nitro Express Woodleigh Solid (250 g.) 500 n/a n/a 51.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
470 Nitro Express Woodleigh Soft 500 n/a n/a 16.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
470 Nitro Express Trophy Bonded Sledge 500 n/a n/a 41.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
470 Nitro Express Grizzly BMB 458 n/a 32.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45x2 7/8” Sharps Lead 543 1,412 26.0 16.0
Year tested:2003
458 Win Mag FMJ 500 2,260 47.0 n/a The bullet tumbled, hit the wood floor, and re-entered the paper
Year tested:2002
45-75 (yes, an old 1876 Winchester) LBT 350 1,490 52.0 14.0
Year tested:2003
45-70 Mt. Baldy Keith 550 1,650 n/a 30.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
45-70 Garrett Hammer Head 415 1,850 23.0 n/a Mushroomed and straight
Year tested:2002
45-70 Saeco Hard Cast 350 2,250 25.0 n/a Expanded and shed the mushroom
Year tested:2002
45-70 CPBC FNGC 460 1,732 28.0 8.0 (came apart on back side of bone)
Year tested:2003
45-70 Barnes Solid Round Nose 450 1,713 47.0 37.5
Year tested:2003
45-70 Garrett Hammer Head 530 1,550 55.0 n/a Front swaged out and tipped
Year tested:2002
454 Casull Punch Bullet 315 1,600 n/a 49.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
454 Casull Freedom Arms JFP 300 1,625 34.0 n/a The bullet tipped at the end of its travel and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
454 Casull LBT 300 1,364 38.5 16.0
Year tested:2003
454 Casull Corbon Penetrator 360 1,500 45.0 n/a The bullet tipped at the end of its travel and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
45 Colt Factory LRN 250 950 21.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45 Colt LFN 330 1,289 22.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45 Colt Unknown 300 1,137 23.5 4.5
Year tested:2003
45 Colt Keith 265 944 24.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45 Colt LFN 350 1,030 26.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45 Colt Mt. Baldy Keith 265 675 27.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
45 Colt CPBC LFN 335 1,158 29.0 13.0
Year tested:2003
45 Colt Keith 310 1,250 36.0 n/a The bullet tipped at the end of its travel and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
45 Colt LBT 300 1,180 38.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
45 Colt LBT 350 1,187 42.0 8.0
Year tested:2003
45 Colt LBT 350 1,400 43.0 n/a Penetrated the paper and stuck itself .25" in the wood backstop
Year tested:2002
45 Auto Rim Keith 240 860 20.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
444 Marlin LFNGC 320 1,947 n/a 24.0 4" bone + paper
Year tested:2004
44 Special CPBC 255 1,031 22.5 8.0
Year tested:2003
44 Magnum (from a levergun) LBT 300 1,471 34.0 16.0
Year tested:2003
44 Magnum Keith 250 1,200 27.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged Our test standard
Year tested:2002
44 Magnum LBT 300 1,520 30.0 35.0
Year tested:2003
44 Magnum LFN 340 1,320 32.0 42.0 Turned sideways on paper test
Year tested:2003
410 GNR CPBC 250 1,599 30.0 8.0
Year tested:2003
41 Special SWC 230 955 26.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
41 Magnum Unknown 210 1,252 26.5 10.5
Year tested:2003
41 Mag 220gr Mt. Baldy Keith 220 1,079 17.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
41 Mag LFN 260 1,354 41.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
405 Winchester Mt Baldy 300 2,242 31.0 13.0
Year tested:2003
405 Winchester Mt Baldy 350 2,261 32.0 23.0
Year tested:2003
38 Special JHP 125 620 8.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
375 Huff Short Mag LBT 230 1,400 39.0 n/a The bullet traveled straight and was undamaged
Year tested:2002
375 H&H Mt. Baldy FNGC 290 2,107 24.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
338 Lapua FXB 250 2,900 32.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
30-06 Cor Lokt 220 2,315 17.5 10.0
Year tested:2003
30-06 Mt. Baldy RNGC 220 2,145 18.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
300 Arnold Speer GRAND SLAM 180 3,175 16.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
257 Roberts Barnes X 100 n/a 20.0 n/a
Year tested:2004
25-20 Unknown n/a 1,049 14.5 n/a
Year tested:2003
25-20 Unknown n/a 1,244 20.0 n/a
Year tested:2003
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So?

Did you compare penetration against another firearm?

I don't know the power level of S&B 44mag ammo, but your 1" expansion says loud and clear that your backstop is seriously tough - 10x tougher than any critter.

I was shooting some fire charred wood with my 44mag and was amazed at how tough that wood can be.

Penetration testing has to be carefully controlled in order to get apples to apples comparisons.
 
Some hunters believe that wet newspaper (soaked for 24 hours) best duplicates bullet performance on live game. They even put elk bones in the mix to simulate that impact.

I read a while back a gun writer that used 310gr .44 mag Buffalo bore rounds in his 4" revolver. At 40 yards, the bullet penetrated 39" of cape buffalo. That is impressive. I doubt it would go more than 20" in dry paper... I've tested some bullets that way also. I don't think it proved much though.
 
That S&B load (I'm assuming it was the 240 gr SP) is a bit of a wimpy load, pushing a bullet that's weakly constructed. The soft core and weak jacket dump all of their energy very quickly, and they don't have a whole lot to begin with (1100 fps from a 5" bbl - even less from your 4" bbl).

With a hotter load (1,300-1,500 fps) pushing a better bullet, you should get better performance.
 
All Joking Aside...

I don't dought Mr. Bond's results that day. I really don't.

I never thought I'd see a 50 cal. BMG round do a 359.999 degree ricochet. See YT. And from a 5'' 1911, I never thought I'd see 230 RN WWB glance off the bill of a baseball hat at 7 yards. That was before YT, plenty other people saw the same thing that morning. Heck! I should have taken that hat off the target and worn it on the range myself for a good luck charm.

So does this mean we can throw away our armor and just stuff a new package of copy paper down our shirt to stop bullets? Not!
 
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