Jamie Young
New member
I heard a guy say the Germans used Wood inside their bullets at some point during WWII. Is this true? I'm not joking he said they used them in machine guns. 
Fact or Fiction? Did the Germans use Wood Core Bullets in WWII?
- Thread starter Jamie Young
- Start date
There were various rumors in WWII that the Germans or the Japanese used wooden bullets, supposedly so that they could not be detected by x-ray and a wounded GI would die from gangrene. No truth to the story. Apparently the rumor arose when GI's encountered the wood bullet blanks used by the Germans and Japanese (also the British, Swedes, Swiss, etc.).
These blanks have hollow wooden bullets to allow them to feed easily, especially in machineguns, but the hollow is filled with powder and the bullets blow into sawdust before they even exit from the muzzle. (The U.S. WWII blanks are crimped, with only a wad, so a wood bullet blank was not something our GI's were used to seeing.)
Some guns had special muzzle devices to ensure that not even a splinter would leave the muzzle.
Sometimes people become convinced that the bullets are solid. One fellow who had been in the British army insisted that the .303 "blue bullet" blank used a solid bullet. When I sectioned one right in front of him and poured out the powder, he called me a liar and told me that he didn't believe it!
Jim
These blanks have hollow wooden bullets to allow them to feed easily, especially in machineguns, but the hollow is filled with powder and the bullets blow into sawdust before they even exit from the muzzle. (The U.S. WWII blanks are crimped, with only a wad, so a wood bullet blank was not something our GI's were used to seeing.)
Some guns had special muzzle devices to ensure that not even a splinter would leave the muzzle.
Sometimes people become convinced that the bullets are solid. One fellow who had been in the British army insisted that the .303 "blue bullet" blank used a solid bullet. When I sectioned one right in front of him and poured out the powder, he called me a liar and told me that he didn't believe it!
Jim
Wood bullets were also used for rifle grenade (shoot-through type) practice on ranges where the bullet would present a hazard. These grenades would slip over the muzzle of a Garand and had a fuze ignited by the bullet's passage. The muzzle blast would propel the grenade ~100+ yards.
Safety was the reason as the standard M2 bullet would travel several miles at normal elevation used for maximum grenade range. A wood bullet would only make it a few thousand feet.
Safety was the reason as the standard M2 bullet would travel several miles at normal elevation used for maximum grenade range. A wood bullet would only make it a few thousand feet.
Hi, Keith J,
Great memory, and thanks for the info. Since that is going back before WWII, I didn't mention it, but here is a bit more on it.
The grenade was the V.B. Grenade, Mk 1, which was simply a copy of the French Viven-Bessieres rifle grenade. Frankford gave the wooden bullet round the designation Model of 1921, and though it never seemed to be standardized, they loaded a few small lots up until 1939, including a Marine order for 30,000 in 1933 (Brophy reports headstamps of 1922 and 1933). By the start of WWII, both the VB grenade and the cartridge were obsolete.
There were several Marks of discharger (launcher), up to the Mk IV, which was the last. They were usually used with the 1903, though there are pictures of ones for the Model 1917. French dischargers are often seen in WWI pictures attached to the Model 1903 and Model 1917. (Of course, in wartime, there was no special cartridge; the normal ball round was used.)
I have seen both the U.S. and French dischargers, but have never seen or seen a picture of one that could fit an M1 rifle. The VB dischargers I have seen are designed to lock onto the front sight and could not have been used with an M1. Unlike the M1 launchers, on which the hollow tube of the grenade fits over the launcher, the VB launcher is a hollow cup into which the cylindrical grenade was dropped. As noted, it had a hole down the middle into which a lever protruded. The bullet went through the hole, striking the lever and arming the grenade, then the muzzle blast acting on the base of the greanade propelled it out of the launcher.
Jim
Great memory, and thanks for the info. Since that is going back before WWII, I didn't mention it, but here is a bit more on it.
The grenade was the V.B. Grenade, Mk 1, which was simply a copy of the French Viven-Bessieres rifle grenade. Frankford gave the wooden bullet round the designation Model of 1921, and though it never seemed to be standardized, they loaded a few small lots up until 1939, including a Marine order for 30,000 in 1933 (Brophy reports headstamps of 1922 and 1933). By the start of WWII, both the VB grenade and the cartridge were obsolete.
There were several Marks of discharger (launcher), up to the Mk IV, which was the last. They were usually used with the 1903, though there are pictures of ones for the Model 1917. French dischargers are often seen in WWI pictures attached to the Model 1903 and Model 1917. (Of course, in wartime, there was no special cartridge; the normal ball round was used.)
I have seen both the U.S. and French dischargers, but have never seen or seen a picture of one that could fit an M1 rifle. The VB dischargers I have seen are designed to lock onto the front sight and could not have been used with an M1. Unlike the M1 launchers, on which the hollow tube of the grenade fits over the launcher, the VB launcher is a hollow cup into which the cylindrical grenade was dropped. As noted, it had a hole down the middle into which a lever protruded. The bullet went through the hole, striking the lever and arming the grenade, then the muzzle blast acting on the base of the greanade propelled it out of the launcher.
Jim
Will Beararms
New member
The Germans used wood bullets towards the end of the war for one reason and one reason only: they were out of vital materials as their lines of supply became severed.
Mike Irwin
Staff
No truth to it at all.
As others have mentioned, there were a number of uses for wood-bulleted cartridges, but not for primary combat use, and not by just the Germans, either.
This practice also continued AFTER WW II for a number of nations, as well.
Here's what Jean Huon has to say about different wood-bulleted cartridges in 7.92x57...
"Blank Model 1888 for rifle, "Platzpatrone 88 Gewehr" -- hyollow wooden bullet painted red, propellant covered with felt wad."
"Bland for machine guns, "Platzpatrone MG" -- hollow wooden bullet painted blue and heavier loads than for the rifle blanks."
"Blank Model 1933 "Platzpatrone 33" -- hollow wooden bullet painted red, pink, blie, or violet, 1 gr. (gram, not grain) load of special blank powder, with a felt wad" (foot note says that One or two knurled rings around the case body indicates it has been reloaded at least once)."
"Grenade cartridge -- without visible bullet, lengthened 61 mm lacquered steel case with conical neck, yellow, red, or black primer annulus according to type of grenade, short, hollow, conical wooden bullet acting as closure."
"Grenade cartridge -- short, rounded-nose wooden bullet, lacquered steel case."
etc. etc. etc.
Germany was also not the only nation to use blanks or grenade launching cartridges made in such a fashion.
France (8mm Lebel and 7.5x54), Japan (7.7), Britain (.303 for use in the Bren gun), Finland (7.62x39), and even the United States used wooden bullets...
For the .30-06...
"Cartridge, Rifle Grenade, for Viven-Bessieres training grenade, natural wooden bullet and "V.B." in head stamp, 0.32 gr. load of black powder and 3.26 gr. of smokeless powder."
But, for the most part, in the United States blanks and rifle grenade cartridges either had hard paper "bullets" or were simply closed with an overwad covered with lacquer.
I have several different European and American cartridges of this type in my collection.
As others have mentioned, there were a number of uses for wood-bulleted cartridges, but not for primary combat use, and not by just the Germans, either.
This practice also continued AFTER WW II for a number of nations, as well.
Here's what Jean Huon has to say about different wood-bulleted cartridges in 7.92x57...
"Blank Model 1888 for rifle, "Platzpatrone 88 Gewehr" -- hyollow wooden bullet painted red, propellant covered with felt wad."
"Bland for machine guns, "Platzpatrone MG" -- hollow wooden bullet painted blue and heavier loads than for the rifle blanks."
"Blank Model 1933 "Platzpatrone 33" -- hollow wooden bullet painted red, pink, blie, or violet, 1 gr. (gram, not grain) load of special blank powder, with a felt wad" (foot note says that One or two knurled rings around the case body indicates it has been reloaded at least once)."
"Grenade cartridge -- without visible bullet, lengthened 61 mm lacquered steel case with conical neck, yellow, red, or black primer annulus according to type of grenade, short, hollow, conical wooden bullet acting as closure."
"Grenade cartridge -- short, rounded-nose wooden bullet, lacquered steel case."
etc. etc. etc.
Germany was also not the only nation to use blanks or grenade launching cartridges made in such a fashion.
France (8mm Lebel and 7.5x54), Japan (7.7), Britain (.303 for use in the Bren gun), Finland (7.62x39), and even the United States used wooden bullets...
For the .30-06...
"Cartridge, Rifle Grenade, for Viven-Bessieres training grenade, natural wooden bullet and "V.B." in head stamp, 0.32 gr. load of black powder and 3.26 gr. of smokeless powder."
But, for the most part, in the United States blanks and rifle grenade cartridges either had hard paper "bullets" or were simply closed with an overwad covered with lacquer.
I have several different European and American cartridges of this type in my collection.
Will Beararms
New member
I beg to differ, per a Lithuianian man I know who was conscripted into the Nazi forces close to the fall of the Third Reich, the Germans were desperate and were using wood bullets at the end on a limited basis.
Jamie Young
New member
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Mike Irwin
Staff
WillBear,
Your friend's situation likely covers one of several situations, none of which is really related to the overall German military/economic situation at the end of the war.
1. As irregulars of dubious loyalty, they may have been issued substandard weapons and ammunition to leave the real items for the German troops.
2. A supply snafu could have meant the issuance of the wrong ammunition.
3. It could have been the only thing the local supply groups had left to dole out if the supply lines had been cut.
3 possible scenarios, but none of which mean that the German army either manufactured combat ammunition with wooden bullets, or issued it wide scale.
Your buddy's situation notwithstanding, at the end of war the Germans were making small arms cartridges of soft steel or iron, with few critical components (items made of brass or copper).
Supplies of mild iron and steel were more than adequate to cover needed ammunition supplies without having to resport to desperation measures of this kind.
Your friend's situation likely covers one of several situations, none of which is really related to the overall German military/economic situation at the end of the war.
1. As irregulars of dubious loyalty, they may have been issued substandard weapons and ammunition to leave the real items for the German troops.
2. A supply snafu could have meant the issuance of the wrong ammunition.
3. It could have been the only thing the local supply groups had left to dole out if the supply lines had been cut.
3 possible scenarios, but none of which mean that the German army either manufactured combat ammunition with wooden bullets, or issued it wide scale.
Your buddy's situation notwithstanding, at the end of war the Germans were making small arms cartridges of soft steel or iron, with few critical components (items made of brass or copper).
Supplies of mild iron and steel were more than adequate to cover needed ammunition supplies without having to resport to desperation measures of this kind.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Purely hearsay, but I've heard/read (sorry, too lazy to go look in "Sharpe's") that wooden bullets were used in training. Dunno which countries/armies.
I have a .45-70 cartridge with a wooden bullet; also a .30-40 Krag cartridge with a wooden bullet.
I don't really know...
Art
I have a .45-70 cartridge with a wooden bullet; also a .30-40 Krag cartridge with a wooden bullet.
I don't really know...
Art
I am currently reading D-Day by Ambrose. There is a mention of the wood bullets. They were blanks and a unit of the German Army in Normandy was conducting training exercises when the U.S. attacked. The US troops thought that the purpose of these bullets was to induce gangrene and treated the prisoners as war criminals.
TT
TT
Mike Irwin
Staff
Art,
What are the headstamp markings on your .30-40 and .45-70?
Huon shows no wood-bulleted rounds having been loaded for the .30-40 -- all blanks either had a crimp, an overwad, or a hard paper bullet.
It's possible that it's a commercial blank.
The .45-70 round could very well be a shot cartridge. Thin, very blunt wooden cups were used to hold shot in both military and commercial rounds.
I have quite a few commercial rounds so loaded in .44-40, .38-40, .45 Colt, etc.
What are the headstamp markings on your .30-40 and .45-70?
Huon shows no wood-bulleted rounds having been loaded for the .30-40 -- all blanks either had a crimp, an overwad, or a hard paper bullet.
It's possible that it's a commercial blank.
The .45-70 round could very well be a shot cartridge. Thin, very blunt wooden cups were used to hold shot in both military and commercial rounds.
I have quite a few commercial rounds so loaded in .44-40, .38-40, .45 Colt, etc.
Ruben Nasser
New member
I don't know why wooden bullets might have been issued to front troops, but probably they were blanks and it was a mistake, for the reasons mentioned. Thanks to Jim K, Keith J and Mike I for all this good info!!
Wooden blank bullets were the norm in europe (and in south america) in the past, I've seen many of them. Many mauser rifles had the muzzle device for shooting them more safely.
I have never seen or heard of wooden bullets actually made for combat.
Wooden blank bullets were the norm in europe (and in south america) in the past, I've seen many of them. Many mauser rifles had the muzzle device for shooting them more safely.
I have never seen or heard of wooden bullets actually made for combat.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
dMike: Just for you, Bubba! 
I took the display off the wall and looked. The Krag has NO, repeat NO headstamp at all.
The .45-70 has an "F", a "96" and an "8" spaced equi-distantly around the head. The case is possibly steel (?), but is not brass. (Don't have a magnet closeby.)
Duh?
Art
Addendsum: I also found a pistol cartridge headstamped "REM-UMC" and ".32 S&W", with a wooden bullet. Quien sabe?
I took the display off the wall and looked. The Krag has NO, repeat NO headstamp at all.
The .45-70 has an "F", a "96" and an "8" spaced equi-distantly around the head. The case is possibly steel (?), but is not brass. (Don't have a magnet closeby.)
Duh?
Art
Addendsum: I also found a pistol cartridge headstamped "REM-UMC" and ".32 S&W", with a wooden bullet. Quien sabe?
Last edited:
Mike Irwin
Staff
Art,
Your .30-40 sounds like it could be a dummy of some type. When you shake it does it sound as if it has powder in it?
The .45-70 cartridge is standard military, made at Frankford Arsenal in Philiadelphia in August 1896.
The case isn't steel -- it's tinned brass. The arsenals tinned a LOT of the ammo production at this time to increase shelf life.
In my personal collection I have examples of .38 Long Colt, .30-40, and .45-70, all with tinned cases.
Your .30-40 sounds like it could be a dummy of some type. When you shake it does it sound as if it has powder in it?
The .45-70 cartridge is standard military, made at Frankford Arsenal in Philiadelphia in August 1896.
The case isn't steel -- it's tinned brass. The arsenals tinned a LOT of the ammo production at this time to increase shelf life.
In my personal collection I have examples of .38 Long Colt, .30-40, and .45-70, all with tinned cases.