Face to face with an escaped murderer in your backyard

F

FUD

Moderator
This thread on "Restraints" and the following post ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RWK: ... I believe a local radio station (750 AM ??) this morning reported a murder in Buckhead. Perhaps that's why the northern suburban Atlanta LEOs were "extra vigilant"? ...[/quote]... got me thinking ...

Suppose you're taking out the garbage and, like me, you have an alligator problem from a nearby swamp, so you decide to be armed with a concealed weapon. Or, maybe you live in a bad part of town and feel that you need to be armed. Whatever the reason, you have a concealed firearm on your person. Now, let's say while taking out the garbage ...<OL TYPE=A><LI> ... You encounter an individual hiding in your backyard. He begins approaching you at a faster pace than will allow you to get back inside your house. If anything, he'll reach you as you would be opening the door. Do you draw your firearm? Recognizing that you have less legal ground to stand on when you are outside of your house, would you still have enough legal ground to draw your firearm?
<LI> Now, let's change the picture slightly. Suppose you've heard on the news (radio, TV, etc.) that there is a manhunt going on in your general area for an armed robber (OR a dangerous rapist, OR a deranged murderer, etc.) and you encounter this undividual hiding in your backyard. He COULD be wanted by the law or he could NOT, you just don't know at that point in time. How would you react?
<LI> Let's change it around even more. Let's say that you are aware that there is an escaped con in the area who was put away for multiple murders and the individual that you encounter hiding in your backyard is wearing the uniform of the establishment where he was staying. What is your next move?</OL>
One final question with regard to the last situation with regard to the escaped con ... Would you be legally justified in using deadly force to prevent his escape (meaning you draw your weapon and he turns and starts walking away) FOR THE SAFETY OF THE COMMUNITY?
 
In all three cases, I say you start to retreat to the house. If he comes on, a verbal warning first -- "Stop! Don't come any closer!" If he does, and you can't reach the house in time, draw and come to Ready, with the warning "Stop or I'll shoot!". If he's stupid enough to keep coming, focus the front sight on center of mass, control your breathing and squeeze, don't pull. (A warning shot into the ground in front of him is acceptable -- don't fire into the air, you don't know where the bullet will land.) At this point he is one of the following:

1. Dead. Call the PD to come take out the trash.

2. Wounded and incapacitated. Stay at Ready, warn him that you'll shoot again if he tries anything aggressive, and shout till your spouse or a neighbor answers. Have them call 911, and tell them to warn the cops that you are not the bad guy and plase don't shoot you.

3. Wounded but still coming. Fire again, repeat as needed until #1 or #2 applies.

4. Untouched but still coming. You shoulda been practicing marksmanship. See #3.

5. Running away. Go inside and call it in. Stay armed, stay vigilant, and call your neighbors to warn them.

I don't know about Atlanta, but IMHO here in Florida you'd be OK following this procedure.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, just Joe Average gabbing about a hypothetical situation.
 
Pretty much agree with David.

Also, if you're in your "back yard," the same considerations apply as they do to your house. It's your property, part of your "castle" under Common Law.

Depending on your state, you may or may not have a duty to retreat as far as possible before firing.

Generally, if you're in fear for your life (and condition B or C would give extra weight to that), you're within your rights to fire.

If you CAN get back inside, do so, then call the police.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
A. Tell him to stop. If in fear for your safety, draw, aim well at centerline and fire, repeat as necessary.

B. and C.....see A.

Sam
 
I teach defensive hand gun. One principle that I teach the students is called "GET HOT" . I came up with this as a way of stating simple stay out of trouble. GET HOT stands for "Get the Hell Out of There"

Additionally, the students are infromed of the three priciples going to gun fight:

The first rule of a gun fight is don't go.

The second rule of a gun fight is run away.

Third rule is, if you can talk your way out of it, talk your way out of it.

With that out of the way, let's move on.

I live in Arizona, we are a no retreat state. In other words in the face of danger, the citizen is under no obligation to be cornered before taking action.

A)As you start moving towards the door, do not loose him in your sight, give one loud verbal warning. Something like "STOP! I AM ARMED AND YOU ARE SCARYING ME!" Most resonable people will freeze in their tracks. If it a cop or a local kid they will answer your challenge. Have them back off until you can clearly make out who they are. If BG still advances go to the ready, 2 rounds to center of mass, still coming? Then 2 head shots. Repeat as many times as necessary or you run out of ammo.(Double taps are the only way to go IMHO) Call the police and then your lawyer...in that order. Zip your pie hole until your lawyer gets there.

B) If possible, get in the house lockup and load up. Get everyone in the same room and
get into to a seige mentality. "Prepare to repel boarders", so to speak. Call the cops and your neighbors and wait. If you can't get into the house see #1.

C)Same as A + B.

Remember your local laws are probably diffent than mine. So, take the time to learn the laws of your area.

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You can find the price of freedom, buried in the ground.
 
FUD first you should make up your mind to move to TX. and if you have the same situation here. If he keeps coming at you after you draw and he sees your gun. Tell him to stop if you have time, if not shoot the B@st@#d, with several double taps until he falls, and if he still moves he may be trying to find his gun, so another double tap would be in order.

I dont think I would run, you might stumble and then you might be kissing your @ss good by.

It should be self defence here in TX. if the subject in question cant lie about the circumstance of the encouter. :)

PS, we do have gaters in some parts here, but you dont need any excuse to carry on private property, and no conceled carry permit is required if you are on your own property.



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"Defiance"
And yet...it moves
(Galileo Galilie)

[This message has been edited by B9mmHP (edited August 30, 2000).]
 
I'll limit this to the escaped convict/escaped murderer.

Texas law is quite specific. If a rational and prudent person has reason to believe that the Bad Guy is a continuing threat to community safety, he may use deadly force on that Bad Guy. It doesn't matter whether the Bad Guy is coming or going.

Shooting somebody in the back when they are running away is a moral issue, not a legal issue--given the circumstances above.

All the thousand caveats others have posted here in the last couple of years apply, of course. Just because you're legally entitled to shoot doesn't mean you should.

Regards, Art
 
(Backpeddling)
"Stop!"
(evaluate)
BamBamBam! (I'm assuming my .32)
(evaluate)
BamBam!


OTOH, if this were a Bundy or a Gacy...My response might sound like
BamBamBamBamBamBam
(shift)
BamBam!
 
Hey if amn escaped Con is put and about.. and you KNOW it.. what the HELL are you doing taking out your trash? (Take out the trash before it starts to stink up the house.) Spoiling for a fight? That's the kind of stuff that gives us gunowners a bad name.

That said:

STOP, PLEASE!
Evaluate (you have 1/4 of a second)
Bang bang bang

Only recommended if you really have a permit.

Option 2 Brain that sorry tressspasser WITH the garbage or the LID, or the whole damn CAN.

Step 2: retreat to house and call the cops.
 
If the guy's in my backyard cowering, or hiding, why? Should that not be cause to goto alert condition yellow?

If I had knowledge there was as escapee in the area, I'm going to assume he's the guy.
Simple as that.
If at that time, I draw a weapon, It'll be with the knowledge that I will likely have to use it...
I have always been taught, and retaught, to never pull a gun on someone unless prepared at that time to fire.

This is a matter of choice here. The scenario has been brought to me.
Let's say this is indeed the BG. If after a warning to get on the ground, and he decides he's not going back to the house, and then rushes me...
I will NOT back down!!

Basis for the comment(s).
If any normal rational person, see's that they've startled you, then see's you goto armed and excited, and doesn't flee immediately, is either crazy, or has a great deal to gain by mucking with you.

Especially after being warned, and seeing you cock, or unsafe, the weapon.
At that time, we're at DEFON 1. The hatches are open, and we're ready to launch.
If at that time, he decides he can take control of the situation, the choice has been removed from me.

Put another way. Am I to weigh the option "fight or flight"? Why me?
Why not the hypothetical BG?

I'm not the one invading someone else's home spaces. Quite the contrary.
 
Have your wife take the trash out while you cover her from the window with a 30-06 .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
 
I don't think much of retreating in general from a threat. Avoiding a threat is different than retreating IMHO. Move to cover or flank yes, retreat not if I have any other option. I think retreating encourages attack, and leaves one in a weak position tactically.

IN the situation you describe, I would have probably said something as soon as I saw the person. Using cover or physical barriors if possible [a kiddie pool would serve as a speed bump against a hand to hand attack, so will a shrub or such].

If they start acting agressive or attack then you respond as required [draw weapon, shoot, CQB, etc].

If there was a BOLO for a goblin, I would probably be doing more clearing of corners and such than normal when I went outside.

Plus I treat home security and defense as a prepared defense...I know where the ambush/kill zones are around my home and practice clearing them [without a gun in hand] on a regular basis.

[This message has been edited by Glamdring (edited August 30, 2000).]
 
I would assume it was Fud, and that he was lost and needed directions...

====

Damn. There I went and done it. I've lowered myself to the level of those other folks. And I LIKE it!
 
Three things to do here if the wife won't do it while you cover her :D
Shoot
Shovel and
Shut up

FUD, We need to get you da hell otta there!

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"In my opinion, anyone pushing through anti-gun legislation is a bloody traitor and should be sent up for treason" N.H. Stuart
 
Donny, you need to review the "colors". Condition White is a general state of "Duh." You *live* in yellow; when you see a potential threat, you go to orange in preparation for combat. Red is when you are ready to drop the hammer on cue, whether it's "If I see a weapon I shoot.", or "If I see a gun I shoot."

Regards, Art
 
I will only add, if you shoot - shoot to kill. Said in all seriousness.

Only time to shoot at a person is when you know your life is in mortal danger. The bullet is the final argument. Once the mortal danger is gone or no longer threatening your life, then don't shoot, but stay ready on first target and be ready for another bad guy and wait for good guy. Easy enough heh.

Regards
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paratrooper:
Have your wife take the trash out while you cover her from the window with a 30-06 .
[/quote]

You're killin' me, paratrooper :D

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NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC

Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our only "No compromise" gun lobby. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
 
Lets just say..

The DA will prosecute me and the public will thank me.

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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

oberkommando sez:
"We lost the first and third and now they are after the Second!(no pun intended)"

As seen in Atlanta's AJC, The Vent: "Let it be known that in this great metropolitan area that you might be able to get away with murder, but you'd better not bash a mailbox."
 
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