Extreme Penetrator Bullets--Good for hunting?

S

stagpanther

New member
The 300gr Lehigh extreme penetrator bullets are some of the most accurate bullets out of my 458 socom AR build. Lehigh says they perform some kind of wound damage enlarging the would channel to equal that of a conventional expanding bullet.

I've read some net wisdom that claims this is false and it's not a good hunting bullet. Point is--I'd like to use it for deer inside of 200 yds since it performs so well out of my AR--but don't know if it's up to the task of a quick ethical kill (assuming I do my part). Part of me says "what the heck--even if it doesn't expand a nearly half inch hole is still pretty big."

opinions/suggestions?
 
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Go to the hobby or craft store and buy your self a block of clay. I used to use duxseal.

Form it into a long rectangular block and crank a round or two into it. Reshape the block after each shot.

BUT, with a sharp knife, after each shot, split the block down the middle gently.

This will allow you to inspect a simulated wound channel.

I use Bentonite for all my tests. Wally World has it in 5 lb bags but I buy it in 50 lb bags at farm & ranch stores.
 
A bullet is designed for performance at a certain velocity. I would go to the manufacturer and ask about the bullet. I am guessing it is meant for large animals such as in Africa. I doubt you get much expansion but you should not need it for deer. To lessen meat damage I would not want much expansion.
Where people get in trouble is when they use a pistol bullet at rifle velocities or vice versa.
 
A .45 Caliber hole through a deer is going to kill it in short order. However, what is the game laws in your state? Most require an expanding bullet, your description of the bullet in question makes it sound like it wouldn't be legal.
 
There is no prohibition against the use of the bullet in Maine. I only want to use it because it performs very well in the 458 socom--at least mine. I thought about testing it--but was hoping someone could say either "yep--bang flop for me" or "I got a complete pass-through with no blood trail."

Many 458 bullets are obviously designed for big-bore dangerous game cartridges--but many are also designed for 45-70 velocities--which the 458 socom emulates at moderate loads.
 
Here's my take: Yes, a .45" hole through a critter might be a killer BUT unless the bullet has some sort of meplat or flat point, tissue damage may be inadequate. African hunters use FMJRN bullets for all sorts of game BUT from my reading of the "old timers" books, they often aimed to hit bone(shoulder, spine, skull) on the lighter game animals. A broken shoulder sends shards of bone through the chest cavity and a critter with a broken shoulder doesn't run far so the professional trackers soon find them.
I'm suggesting that anything labelled "penetrator" isn't likely to produce a suitable wound track when delivered to a deer's lungs.
 
Here's my take: Yes, a .45" hole through a critter might be a killer BUT unless the bullet has some sort of meplat or flat point, tissue damage may be inadequate. African hunters use FMJRN bullets for all sorts of game BUT from my reading of the "old timers" books, they often aimed to hit bone(shoulder, spine, skull) on the lighter game animals. A broken shoulder sends shards of bone through the chest cavity and a critter with a broken shoulder doesn't run far so the professional trackers soon find them.
I'm suggesting that anything labelled "penetrator" isn't likely to produce a suitable wound track when delivered to a deer's lungs.
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The videos I've seen show the "Phillips head" design of the penetrator does create a large wound channel up to the point it starts tumbling in ballistic gel. It's a monolithic bullet of a brass/copper mix apparently. The bullet also features something akin to driving bands which for some reason that I can't figure out work extremely well in the bore of my gun--much better than the barne's tsx or ttsx's. If I do my part I can sometimes put bullets through the same hole on successive shots--but that takes a lot of concentration and work keeping the gun steady, it puts out quite the bang for an AR.

Your concern about a boiler room shot is the same one I have.
 
I bought some for the .458 SOCOM and for the .475 Tremor (even meaner looking, since they're intended for revolvers and have a massive meplat).
But I have not, yet, used any.
Past experience with other bullets has made me wonder the same as you: Will it be a quick enough kill?

I don't question whether or not it will kill - just whether it will be quick enough.
 
I'm surprised no-one seems to bring up safety first.
You have to be a lot more careful with a round designed to penetrate as it will likely pass through the animal and continue on.
I believe that the states requiring an expanding round do so for two reasons - one is to take down the game which an expanding round will more reliably do quickly and another is to prevent a round from traveling half a mile or more if you only graze the animal or miss entirely.

So I'd ask you - what is it that you are hunting that might need a round designed strictly for it's penetration qualities? This isn't something I'd think you'd use for deer. Seems like more something you'd use for large trophies. Moose maybe, definitely bear, or on safari. I'd think a penetrator round would be to pass through deep fat layers and / or think bone.

I'd recommend you keep looking for regular ammo for your weapons until you find or make a load it "likes" :-)
 
I'm surprised no-one seems to bring up safety first.
You have to be a lot more careful with a round designed to penetrate as it will likely pass through the animal and continue on.
I believe that the states requiring an expanding round do so for two reasons - one is to take down the game which an expanding round will more reliably do quickly and another is to prevent a round from traveling half a mile or more if you only graze the animal or miss entirely.

So I'd ask you - what is it that you are hunting that might need a round designed strictly for it's penetration qualities? This isn't something I'd think you'd use for deer. Seems like more something you'd use for large trophies. Moose maybe, definitely bear, or on safari. I'd think a penetrator round would be to pass through deep fat layers and / or think bone.

I'd recommend you keep looking for regular ammo for your weapons until you find or make a load it "likes" :-)
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Interesting observation--in the 458 socom the EP projectile runs out of gas pretty quickly--I wouldn't use it on anything outside of 150 yds probably. I'm not sure how much more or less lethal it would be compared to other monolithic designs in a "long range miss". It is very accurate in my AR--that is why I like it.
 
I'm surprised no-one seems to bring up safety first.
You have to be a lot more careful with a round designed to penetrate as it will likely pass through the animal and continue on.
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That would be covered by rule #4:
Be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

The shot shouldn't be taken with any bullet, if a full pass-through is risking harm to someone or something else.
 
That would be covered by rule #4:
Be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

The shot shouldn't be taken with any bullet, if a full pass-through is risking harm to someone or something else.
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I thought that goes without saying--but thanks for saying it anyway.
 
"...unless the bullet has some sort of meplat or flat point..." Like a muzzle loader's round ball?
"...the "Phillips head" design..." Is marketing nonsense. The Lehigh Extreme Penetrator bullet is just another solid copper bullet that will do exactly the same thing any other like solid copper bullet(like Barnes') will do. A 300 grain, .458" bullet at ~ 1700 to 1800 FPS, placed correctly, will drop anything you care to hunt. Hunting regs aside. Not that you should ignore them.
"...Moose maybe, definitely bear..." Neither require extreme penetration. A regular SP will kill either one of 'em with no fuss.
Nice of Lehigh to have load data on their site.
 
The videos I’ve seen of both the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator and Xtreme Defense bullets have been impressive. They have outperformed everything else tested in ballistics gel.
Personally, I think the Lehigh bullets make good sense and I’ve started using them in .357 Sig for woods carry.
 
The videos I’ve seen of both the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator and Xtreme Defense bullets have been impressive. They have outperformed everything else tested in ballistics gel.
Personally, I think the Lehigh bullets make good sense and I’ve started using them in .357 Sig for woods carry.
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I've searched high and low on the net and can't find any actual anecdotal "I shot my deer with an EP out of my 458 socom and...":rolleyes:
 
Check your game laws. A lot of states use wording such as "bullet meant to expand".
This would eliminate the use of the EP right there.
 
I've searched high and low on the net and can't find any actual anecdotal "I shot my deer with an EP out of my 458 socom and..."
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So you can be the first to field test them and write a review. I certainly wouldn’t balk at using them simply because somebody else hasn’t done it yet. In absolute worst case, they should work at least as well as a cast or solid bullet.
I have enough confidence in them to rely upon them in my carry loads. I used to carry Gold Dots but I now feel these Lehigh bullets are superior.

In addition to Underwood, Black Hills is selling ammo loaded with these bullets now. They call it their Honey Badger line. They must feel confident the bullets will work as intended too.

I’ve noticed a lot of negative posts on certain items from people who have never tried them but have heard someone else slamming the item so they feel the need to jump on the negative bandwagon. Then there is the “if it isn’t hard cast with a large meplat, it’s worthless” mindset.
I wonder how many experts who are saying these bullets won’t work have actually used them?

I also get quite a few negative comments on the .357 Sig as my choice of carry round. The popular consensus is that since the Sig round won’t launch a heavy bullet quite as well as a .357 magnum, it’s a vastly inferior cartridge and I would be better off carrying almost anything else, even a 9MM. These opinions also mostly come from people who have never used the round.
Frankly, I prefer to do my own thinking.
 
So you can be the first to field test them and write a review. I certainly wouldn’t balk at using them simply because somebody else hasn’t done it yet. In absolute worst case, they should work at least as well as a cast or solid bullet.
I have enough confidence in them to rely upon them in my carry loads. I used to carry Gold Dots but I now feel these Lehigh bullets are superior.

In addition to Underwood, Black Hills is selling ammo loaded with these bullets now. They call it their Honey Badger line. They must feel confident the bullets will work as intended too.

I’ve noticed a lot of negative posts on certain items from people who have never tried them but have heard someone else slamming the item so they feel the need to jump on the negative bandwagon. Then there is the “if it isn’t hard cast with a large meplat, it’s worthless” mindset.
I wonder how many experts who are saying these bullets won’t work have actually used them?

I also get quite a few negative comments on the .357 Sig as my choice of carry round. The popular consensus is that since the Sig round won’t launch a heavy bullet quite as well as a .357 magnum, it’s a vastly inferior cartridge and I would be better off carrying almost anything else, even a 9MM. These opinions also mostly come from people who have never used the round.
Frankly, I prefer to do my own thinking.
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+1:)

Gold dots are legendary--and I have thousands of them--but I'll be darned if I ever got them to shoot more accurately than other pistol bullets. LOL Their hot cors, on the other hand do extremely well in some cartridges inclined towards shorter flat-based style bullets.
 
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