Extended Report on Estate Reduced-Recoil Buckshot (IMPORTANT!!!)

L

laissezfirearm

New member
To put it in simple terms, this may be the best deal on buckshot available!

My review can be found at:

http://hometown.aol.com/laissezfirearm/myhomepage/etat00rr.htm

The caveat is that I have only tested a single case lot. I need you folks to try it out. If it works consistently, WE HAVE TO TELL ESTATE THAT THEY HAVE IT RIGHT. (If their sales figures do not jump up dramatically, they may change the formula.)

I'm preparing a detailed letter to send off to the company. The more useful info I can provide, the better. I've got two more cases en route, and will test it immediately. If what you get works as well, please let me know ASAP!

The Natchez order line is 1-800-251-7839. The ammo I'm talking about is item number ETRR12BK00. It is on sale this month for $2.19 per TEN-round box, plus shipping. Please, get at least fifty rounds or so and test it (and be sure to ask for a free Natchez catalog while you're at it -- they've got a lot of other neat stuff). If you'd like to provide your results to me, remember to include the case lot number, found on the top flap of every box.



[Edited by laissezfirearm on 02-03-2001 at 04:51 AM]
 
The Estate SWAT buck load has to be the best kept secret in tactical shotgunning.

Pattern sizes with Estate are almost exactly 1/2 what I experience with Federal tactical (LEO Only) 000, and about 1/3 the size of patterns I get with S&B buckshot.

At $2.19/10 it's a screaming good deal! I have already stocked up with ammo at the sale price from Natchez SS.

Results are the same with my Benelli M1 S90 Tactical M and Mossberg 590A1 w/ VangComp. FYI, 590A1 VangComp patterns at 10 meters are consistently 2" w/ the Estate load - great for those hostage taker head shots!

HTH
 
no knock on the estate buck. but I wonder at what point does an even tighter pattern defeat the purpose of using buckshot? why not just use a reduced recoil slug?
 
Less tendency to overpenetrate,Pub, and note the word "tendency". The crucial area here is terminal ballistics, what the projectile(s) does after impact.

One has to be outside the house(or live in a hangar) to tell the difference is degrees of choke. As a arbitrary rule(kind of an educated guess), I'd say that Modified choke is close to the limit of best chokes for 00,and only individual testing will determine if it's overchoking or not.

Laisse, I'm going to order some and try it out...
 
WITHIN REASON (caps for emphasis), a tighter pattern means less chance for stray pellets hitting someone you didn't even see. I say within reason, because some folks want 4" patterns at 25 yards so they can brag about it.

As Dave McC pointed out, a slug has a lot of penetration. Much more then most people think. It is unlikely that a slug fired at 25 yards would stay in the body. To give you an idea, I was testing penetration of buckshot on a 1 1/2 foot thick bale of newspaper at 50 feet. No buckshot penetrated more then the 8" into the bale. I happened to have a few Brenneke 1 oz. standard velocity slugs with me so I thought I would try one. Big mistake! The slug blew a 6" diameter hole all the way through the bale and I spent most of an hour picking shredded paper up from the 50 foot line to the 50 yard line. I found the slug at the 100 yard line where it had bored about 4" into the backstop. Powerful slugs, those Brennekes.
 
Do they do No. 4 buckshot?

I favor that for my defensive shotgun use due to the heavier payload and triple the number of pellets.

If things go REALLY south, I've got S&B 00 buck (12 pellets) and some Winchester sabot slugs.
 
I am a big fan of the Estate reduced recoil 00 buck, and I've bought a few cases over the last couple of years from Natchez.

Mike, I think there is a #4 Buck load from Estate, though AFAIK Natchez doesn't carry it, and I'm not sure if it is reduced recoil. In the back of my mind, I think I saw it advertised in The Sportsman's Guide catalog.
 
Laisse,I just put the Visa card away and got off the phone with Natchez. 100 rounds are headed this way. If I can persuade the range boss at my local range to let me pattern some buck, I'll do a test at a measured 25 yards, use Winchester 00 as a control and comparison,and post the results and the Lot #.I'll use my chokeless HD 870.

Sound OK to you?
 
I had lots of problems with 00 buck fouling my 1187, until I tried the Estate SWAT stuff. Simply awesome results: no fouling, no "burnt hair" odors like the S&B stuff, acceptable pattern & lower recoil too. No problems with the 200 or so rounds I've used thus far.

It was recommmended to me by someone who explained the shot is "chilled", thus much, much harder than standard shot. He went on to mention he had tested it for penetration on a car door and found the harder shot penetrates deeper into the door.

You guys may want to try similar penetration tests.
 
>WITHIN REASON (caps for emphasis), a tighter pattern
>means less chance for stray pellets hitting someone
>you didn't even see.

Gotta differentiate between "a tighter pattern" and "tighter patterning" here.

A standard Modified choke tube seems to be the best *low-cost* solution for buckshot patterning. But your OVERALL group size may not shrink after simply installing a tighter choke [insert story here]:

My friend Greg brought his unchoked Mossberg 9200 "Jungle Gun" the last time we hit the range, and shot it alongside my Mod-choked 870 on a pair of clean targets at 25 yards. He was amazed, after all my BS, that the patterns out of both guns *looked* to be the same size after ten rounds.

So I pulled out my Spyderco, did some quick cutting, and plopped the important bits over a standard-size silhouette.

You got it. Almost all of the pellets from my gun were easily in the high money. Less than one pellet per load qualified as a "flier". His own patterns were the same overall SIZE (yardstick-wise), but were beautifully distributed to fill the entire picture.

THAT's why folks spend the big bucks on Vang-Comps and the like. Eliminating the forcing cone and other problem areas is more than just a neat selling point.

(Think about it. Even if a stream of pellets is moving relatively smoothly down a barrel, one of them might very well dink slightly off the cylindrical wall at EXACTLY the right moment to ensure that it SMACKS the mod choke at EXACTLY *the* correct angle required to maximize deformation . . .)
 
Dave McC wrote:

>I'll do a test at a measured 25 yards, use
>Winchester 00 as a control and comparison, and
>post the results and the Lot #. I'll use my
>chokeless HD 870.
>
>Sound OK to you?

Works for me. The more info folks provide, the smaller the chance that they'll screw it up!

(Hope you asked for a free Natchez catalog. That'd put you on the mailer list, and they run some EXCELLENT specials!)

> Laisse

Make that "Laissez". (Take it you ain't got no French kin.)
 
No French, Laissez, One Grandma's Sicilian, one mostly Cherokee and Choctaw, other ancestors run heavy on Irish, Scots, Scots Irish, Welsh and Pa Dutch. Touch of Shawnee in there too, maybe.

Still waiting on the ammo....
 
A most excellent review. I had considered purchasing some of the Estate buckshot but had heard little with regard to it's performance. Also, the shipping would be murder. In lieu of it, I have been using the Sellier & Bellot at 55$ a case (200 rounds) picked up at the gun show. Cost is 29.5 cents a shell with tax. With the pricing you mention, it sure becomes competitive. With the performance you mention, it becomes imperative. Great work.
 
Did another series of tests today with the second batch of Estate 00 reduced-recoil ammo from Natchez Shooters Supply.

Five rounds, forty-five pellets. 10.4" at 25 yards from the stock 870 #6231 cantilever barrel with a Modified choke tube, 1X Burris scope. The other three targets showed all of the pellets easily within 14" (eliminate one or two fliers, and they'd all be under 12").

Absolutely amazing.

Get it now while it is on sale!
 
Well, I was convinced. I got on Natchez's website, clicked on the Estate buckshot, ordered 20 boxes, it came out to $43.80

They were adding $23.10 (sic!!!!!) for shipping out here to Californicate!!! I quickly cancelled the sale...

Shipping must be a primary profit center for Natchez...
 
>They were adding $23.10 (sic!!!!!) for shipping
>out here to Californicate!

Check again. Natchex has got a lot of monkeys (by which I mean nice and undoubtedly-beautiful Baptist ladies who don't know dick about guns) answering the phones. Yours probably tried to stick you with second-day shipping.

If they "still" quote the same high price, try to find a local supplier. Estate Cartridge is based in Willis, TX, so you should not have to pay Easterner shipping.
 
I purchased 100 boxes of the Estate Tactical 00 from Natchez. They charged me $53.56 freight and insurance (UPS Ground) and $3.90 Handling Charge for a Grand Total of $276.46 for 1000 rounds of buckshot.

I'm happy to pay $0.27 per round for performance this load delivers.

Romulus,

What do you pay per round in Kali for buck? And will it deliver the performance of the Estate buck?
 
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